The following results have been found.
<fizzblizz> Muß auch mal schlafen zwischendurch <nobse> <7of9>Schlaf ist irrelevant</7of9>
* lolo ist gewöhnt daß Software das tut, was ICH ihr sage <Joey> Offenbar bist Du Freie Software gewohnt.
<Joey> What pronoun does "avowal" require?
<bod> of
<bod> not a pronoun
<dres> Joey: that's an odd word to use. what are you trying to say?
<Joey> "This avowal of Free Software is a forward-looking step for the German
IT-infrastructure."
<dres> hrm. ya. sounds fine.
<Culus> How many people here knew what avowal meant before Joey used it?
<Culus> Not something you see in everyday conversation
Ich weiß. Habe ja während der letzten LinuxTage miterlebt, daß die meisten Debian-Entwickler in der Tat eine seltene Rarität von Spezies sind, die völlig ohne Schlaf oder Körperhygiene auskommen.
<kju> LinuxTag-Büro? Meine Güte :-) <kju> Ihr sollt studieren! <Joey> kju: Tun wir ja auch, Veranstaltungswissenschaften.
<Blinder> Ich dachte ich krieg das gratis, weil ich so schön bin?
Betten für Debian widersprechen dem ersten Knopperschen Axiom.
Debian ist die Distribution, bei der man solange draufhauen muß, bis es klappt.
Debian ist ein Textadventure.
So ein Vorschlag kann auch nur vom Debian-Team kommen.
Oli: Was macht das Referat Menschenpflege? Karsten: Debian-Leute waschen.
Cool, FUD und gegen-FUD. Ist sowieso alles Wurscht, alldieweil Debian RULEZ!
Ich weiß, "mit Debian wäre das nicht passiert"...
This package contains the SDL-version of the Abuse game engine. It requires a mouse. DAS ist ja mal wieder typisch Debian. <BLINK>WARNING!</BLINK> REQUIRES A MOUSE!!!!
Das ist eine gute Debian.
Ich wußte schon immer, daß Debianer krank sind.
Ja, was sich Debianer halt so unter einem GUI vorstellen: Ein Programm mit Kommandozeilenoptionen.
Ha! Ich habe es ja immer gewußt, daß sich Debian mit dieser Logo-Wahl selbst in den Fuß schießt. Ich dachte immer, das wäre ein mißglücktes Fragezeichen, das ausdrücken soll, daß sich niemand einig wurde oder irgendsowas esoterisches ...
[Debian] Esoterisch ist da gar nix, daß es suckt ok, aber man hat sich damit abgefunden.
Debian ("Du hast drei Wünsche: unstable, testing oder stable, wähle mit Bedacht!").
Noch nicht, aber anscheinend ist das Debian-Projekt tot. Hat sich selbst blockiert, es wird nie wieder neue Pakete geben, weil ein ominöses Ding namens "Woody" niemals erscheinen wird, und alles zur Bewgungsunfähigkeit erstarrt ist.
Ich habe gleich mal ein paar mehr gemacht, damit die N^2+1 Debian-Leute auch jeweils einen bekommen.
Oh Gott... Einer der Joey-Bots ist mit Hilfe von H.G. Wells in die Vergangenheit gereist... Morlocks, Eloys, Debianer... Hülfe!
Ich bin eigentlich für Knoppix 3.3, weil Debian 4.0 sicher NICHT zum LinuxTag released wird.
Mit Roh-Debian etc kann man dagegen selbst eingefleischten Linuxianern das Fürchten lehren!
LinuxTag oder Debian, das ist hier die Frage.
Du würdest da ja auch Debian abkippen und 'nen guten Mail-Reader verwenden.
Ich erinner mich, daß wir (KDEler, Red Hatler, Gnomeler, Debianer und diverse ander) am letzten Tag der CeBIT vergnügt in einem Restaraunt saßen. Dann kamen ein paar Leute mit Microsoft-Hemden in das Lokal. Aus Spaß brachte ich ihnen ein paar Knoppix-CDs. Daraus entstand eine recht lustige und anregende Unterhaltung.
Naja, so schlimm kommt es vielleicht nicht, aber es könnte die Besucherzahlen beeinträchtigen, wenn der MS-Stand von US-Marines bewacht wird, im Stile von "Debian, KDE and PHP are the axis of evil".
Der Debian-Stand ist immer voll. Den kannst Du auchy 50qm groß machen, der wird immer noch voll. Das ist ein Faß ohne Boden.
Anscheinend ist es notwendig, Debians Stand-Personal darauf aufmerksam zu machen, daß es nicht nur eine schlechte Angewohnheit ist, den Besuchern den Rücken zuzukehren. Wenn man sich dabei vorbeugt, und ein zu kurzes Hemd trägt, kann man beim Besucher unter Umständen sogar Traumata auslösen. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob wir eine eventuelle Schmerzensgeldklage aus den Spenden bezahlen könnten.
Trying to get more (booth) space out of Joey is a hard task.
Der Microsoft-Stand ist in Wurfreichweite vom Debian-Stand.
Die bringen häufiger Adventures heraus als Debian Distris.
Ubuntu ist aber auch nicht mehr richtig Debian, im Gegensatz zu Knoppix.
Das Problem scheint das "Softwaremuseum" Debian stable zu sein.
<Myon> KMK? Kultusministerkonferenz?! <Joey> Karlsruher Messe Kesellschaft
Kennt sich hier jemand mit Debian aus?
Die bei Debian waren meiner Ansicht nach dann doch die besten, man konnte die was fragen und man bekam 'ne sinnvolle Antwort, und wenn sie es so nicht wußten, wurde man wenigstens dazu eingeladen, bei denen im Chat vorbeizuschauen oder denen eine Email zu schreiben.
Was ist kein Debian-Release?
a) bo
b) hamm
c) joey
<vicbrother> In Hamburg stirbt man derzeit an Hitze
<Joey> Sicher? Das ist bestimmt nicht wärmer als auf dem LinuxTag,
und die haben wir auch überstanden.
<Joey> Du fängst schon an wie Nils, der will auch
keinen Content auf Plakate haben...
* Ganneff haut Joey den Kopf ab
* ij fragt sich, ob Joey an einem Buch über den LinuxTag schreibt?
<Salz> "21 things to do with a rostbratwurst" <HA_KE> Ich sitz bei Joey <HA_KE> und esse seit Tagen kein Fleisch mehr <HA_KE> grrr <HA_KE> Ihr seid so grausam
<Tolimar> Es gibt einen Ubuntu und Debian Track? <Tolimar> . o O ( Toll, das wir das schon erfahren... ) <weasel> Das find ich diskriminierend.
<Diskussion über zu große T-Shirts>
-!- Rhonda [alfie@asteria...] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Tolimar> Oh, jetzt ist Rhonda beleidigt, weil sie nicht mit Joey ein
T-Shirt teilen darf
<weasel> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa <weasel> | laber jammer jammer spam laber <weasel> | boese LT 2005 KSP seite <weasel> | laber jammer spam laber
Das schlimmste: Debian-T-Shirts in rot weiss, ich dachte ich würde blind werden
I might as well boycot Debian because it's under the auspices of GWB.
<zobel> So groß ist der LT dieses Jahr nicht. <zobel> IIRC 7 kommerzielle Aussteller, der Rest .ORG
lol... Joeys Forward auf debian-events-de vom LT call of papers wurde nicht als SPAM klassifiziert... Nur Nils' Orginal-Mail.
Whoever asked if the debian organization was dead isn't reading debian-devel. 66 messages in one day, and it's not over. I find it difficult to keep up.
Sex dumps core (Sex is a Simple editor for X11)
> 1. is qmail as secure as they say? Depends on what they were saying, but most likely yes.
(It is an old Debian tradition to leave at least twice a year ...)
Stopping Apache webserver...sleeping...starting again...apache: dl-version.c:189:
_dl_check_map_versions: Assertion `needed != ((void *)0)' failed
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
#Debian makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :)
<Myxie> I know. Unless htere is a cookie monster somewhere between us tat muches the amil. <Myxie> amil/mail <Myxie> muches/munches tat/that htere/there <HippieGuy> heheh <HippieGuy> problems? :) * Myxie needs an ircii addon that pipes teh command line through ispell :)
It's computer hardware, of course it's worth having <g>
Alan E. Davis: Some files at llug.sep.bnl.gov/pub/debian/Incoming are stamped on 10 January 1998. As I write, nowhere on Earth is it now 10 January. Craig Sanders: That just proves how advanced debian is, doesn't it :-)
<Joey> gorgo: *lol* <gorgo> joey: what's so funny? :) <Culus> shh, joey is losing all sanity from lack of sleep <Culus> 'yes joey, very funny' <Culus> Humor him :>
* SynrG notes that the number of configuration questions to answer in sendmail is NON-TRIVIAL
* JHM wonders what Joey did to earn "I'd just like to say, for the record, that Joey rules."
Do people like check the Debian website every 5 minutes to check it hasn't morphed into another one? Not that I'm one to talk, but some people seriously need to get a life
* james would be more impressed if netgod's magic powers could stop the splits in the first place... * netgod notes debian developers are notoriously hard to impress
* In anticipation of 2.10.02 release, updated to patchlevel
+ircu2.10.01+.config6-7.config7-8.lgline3.iwho.limit.glibc.motdcache2.trace.whois1-2.config8-9.statsw.sprintf2-3.msgtree2.memleak1-2+.msgtree2-3.gline8-9.gline9-10.invite2.rbr.stats.numclients.whisper.whisper1-2.stats1-2.nokick1-2.chroot.config9-11.snomask7-8.limi+t1-3.userip1-3.userip3-4.config11-12.config12-13.umode2-3.akillsbt.who4-5.kn.kn1-2.freebsdcore2.msgtree3-5.y2k.glibc1-2.rmfunc.msgf+lags2.who5-6.nickchange2.glibc2-3.modeless3
* Joey should not write changelog entries at 5:30am <Joey> * DFSC Free cgi library <Joey> What's that? DFSC? <jim> Debian Free Software mroooooCows
<Stealth> How do I bind a computer to an NIS server? <Joey> Use a rope?
Does biff in bo work coz it biffin doesn't beep an if biff in bo is broke then biff in bo I will delete I've tried biff in bo with 'y' I've tried biff in bo with '-y' no biffin output does it show so poor wee biff is gonna go.
The bug system is not a release-specific entity. Users of Debian 1.3.1 use the same bug tracking system as users of hamm.
<grin> seen jhm <dpkg> jhm is Sarek, and jhm is on the channel right now! * JHM wonders why dpkg remembers that particular nick. <grin> dpkg: Sarek? ermm, sure, and I am Khan
> I thing you're missing the capability of Makefiles.
It takes several _hours_ to do `make' a second time on my
machine with the latest glibc sources (and no files are recompiled a
second time). I think I'll remove `build' after changing one file if
I want to recompile it.
<Culus> aIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 <Culus> MY LIGHT JUST DIED <Culus> I AM SO SAD <Culus> I'm blind! I'm blind! <dark> Light? <dark> Turn all your xterms to black-on-white :) Plenty of light that way.
| |-sshd---tcsh-+-dpkg-buildpacka---rules---sh---make---make---sh---make---sh---make---sh---make---sh---make---sh---make
<dark> eat Depends: cook | eat-out.
But eat-out is non-free so that's out.
And cook Recommends: clean-pans.
<james> abuse me. I'm so lame I sent a bug report to debian-devel-changes
<doogie> Thinking is dangerous. It leads to ideas.
<james> Are we going to make an Emacs out of apt?
APT - Debian in a program. It even does your laundry
<joost> Do you mean to say that I can read mail with vi too? ;-) <Joey> Didn't you know that? <Joey> :r /var/spool/mail/jk
Charles Briscoe-Smith <cpbs@debian.org>:
After all, the gzip package is called `gzip', not `libz-bin'...
James Troup <troup@debian.org>:
Uh, probably because the gzip binary doesn't come from the
non-existent libz package or the existent zlib package.
Debian is like Suse with yast turned off, just better. :)
<jim> Lemme make sure I'm not wasting time here... bcwhite will remove
pkgs that havent been fixed that have outstanding bugs of severity
"important". True or false?
<JHM> jim: "important" or higher. True.
<jim> Then we're about to lose ftp.debian.org and dpkg :)
* netgod will miss dpkg -- it was occasionally useful
<Joey> We still have rpm....
* JHM wonders what Joey did to earn "I'd just like to say, for the record, that Joey rules."
*** Rince is wagner@schizo.DAINet.de (We have Joey, we have Fun, we have Linux on a Sun)
Ha. I say let them try -- even vi+perl couldn't match the power of an editor which is, after all, its own OS. ;-)
Being overloaded is the sign of a true Debian maintainer.
<alaint> joey--very clever !!! <alaint> joey--no wonder that Debian is a good distrib with coder like you
<dark> Turns out that grep returns error code 1 when there are no matches.
I KNEW that. Why did it take me half an hour?
It's simply unbelievable how much energy and creativity people have invested into creating contradictory, bogus and stupid licenses... --- Sven Rudolph about licences in debian/non-free.
<Overfiend> partycle: I seriously do need a vacation from this
package. I actually had a DREAM about introducing a
stupid new bug into xbase-preinst last night. That's a
Bad Sign.
<core> i'm glad Debian finally got into
polar-deep-freeze-we-arent-shitting-you state finally.
<dark> Looks like the channel is back to normal :) <jim> You mean it's not scrolling faster than anyone can read? :)
Außerdem noch [..] die Distribution für Puristen, denen technische Eleganz und Qualität und philosophisch reine Lehre der `freien Software' über totale Einfachheit geht (Debian) und viele mehr.
No, that's wrong too. Now there's a race condition between the rm and the mv. Hmm, I need more coffee.
I am amazed that no-one's based a commercial distribution on Debian yet - it is by far the most solid UNIX-like OS I've ever installed, and I've played with HP/UX, Solaris, FreeBSD, BSDi, and SCO (not to mention OS/2, Novell, Win95/NT)
<Jim> http://www.novare.net/~eam/kaffe/
<Joey> ^
<Joey> And now we all learn how to write Ean's name and the URL is complete.
<Jim> Hah! I noticed that while I sent it, and I tried to hit ^g, but
I was too slow. :-)
<Culus-> I will be known as Ian Black, Ean can be Ian Red, Netgod Ian Blue,
Che gets Ian Yellow, CQ is Ian Purple and Joey is Ian Indigo
From: Ean Schuessler <ean@novare.net> The unrecognized minister of propaganda, E
* liw prefers not to have Linus run Debian, because then /me would have to run Red Hat, just to keep the power balance :)
<\\swing> and if we're playing old distributions... whatever happened to Yggdrasil? :) <joost> \\swing: everybody who tried to pronounce it got their tongue in a knot and choked
* dpkg ponders: 'C++' should have been called 'D'
<rm_-rf_> The real value of KDE is that they inspired and push the
development of GNOME :-)
* dpkg hands stu a huge glass of vbeer * Joey takes the beer from stu, you're too young ;) * Cylord takes the beer from Joey, you're too drunk. * Cylord gives the beer to muggles.
<stu> Stupid nick highlighting <stu> Whenever someone starts with "stupid" it highlights the nick. Hmm.
<netgod> And once Diziet/CQ make the formal announcment that LSA
sucks, we can even reduce the Crisis Level rating and move
on to linuxfoundation.org.
* LG loves czech girls. <vincent> LG: do they have additional interesting "features" other girls don't have? ;)
Day X+4 months: Microsoft ships NT 5.0 for Intel.with a big media
event on TV. IBM begins to ship Debian 4.6 as the
standard OS on all machines from mainframe to PC
and announces the move on Slashdot.
<doogie> netgod: 8:42pm is not late. <netgod> doogie: its 2:42am in Joeyland
Debian's bug tracking looks very pro.
<JHM> ruud: Repeat after me: Netscape is a web browser.
A web browser. Not a mailer. Not a newsreader.
Not an HTML editor.
<Efraim> joey: i did not say anything. forget i existed. :)
Subject: Bug#42432: debian-policy: Proposal for CTV for Draft for Proof of Concept for Draft for Proposal for Proposal for CTV for a CTV to decide on a proposal for a CTV for the CTV on whether or not we shoud have a CTV on the /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc transition now, or later.
<bdale> Something in the new lprng is funny <rcw> bdale: Just one thing?! :)
I am interested in the samosa machines. Could you please send more information regarding these machines, including the prices.
* bdale thinks life is too short to run proprietary software...
*** Raf (rafael@gallium.icp.inpg.fr) has joined channel #debian-devel <Joey> Raf, I'm currently finishing the list you requested. <Joey> Args, you're the wrong Raphael. <Raf> Joey: I guessed you've mistaken... [..] <Raf> Joey: debconf is fantastic. Who is your boss at VA? <Joey> Raf: Wrong Joey :-)))
* Joey wonders if people believe he's the evil maniac * Joey seems to disagree with lots of developers. <JHM> Joey: It keeps Debian interesting :-)
<Overfiend> Joey: If its yours, I promise not to scream, because
you cleaned it up and made it better, with no lost mail :)
> How many of these editor things does Debian need? :)) <runs> Two, of course. vi because it's the one true editor, and Emacs to keep the heretics quiet.
Do not get stuck in the old-time UNIX (and BSD and Debian) mentality of "it's supposed to be hard, because that's what makes you a man".
<james-workaway> woooooooooop! <james-workaway> working networking on my tosh... do dah day.
He was bitching that gnapster spit stuff out to stdout, I asked him if it was reproducible in the latest version, he told me to read the diff or check for myself :)
<Joey> Bah, he names his box after himself... lame :) <Tv> And Joey gives boxes names he can't pronounce ;)
James, I think it would be a good idea to disable the autobuilder while saens is traveling.
<Culus> Craig flames Manoj <Culus> That is not going to be good for his health
* Overfiend feels a little better now that he has flamed
"MY GOD!! LOOK!! THAT CAN OF SPAM!!! IT HAS.....TEETH!"
"Where did you learn such language!" "From debian-devel, daddy"
*** vincent has changed the topic on channel #debian to Welcome on #debian * vincent curses at xchat * doogie larts vincent
<joeyh_> MandrakeSoft Buys Bochs, LGPLs It" <joeyh_> Holy shit <joeyh_> That's great! <Culus> Quick! package it! <Culus> What is it? <Culus> Never mind, <Culus> Package faster!
<BenC> [bcollins@auric(2:07pm)-~]%du -sk /scratch/* <BenC> 6752992 /scratch/aj <BenC> 3077624 /scratch/dan <BenC> heh, when people use scratch space...they use a lot
This SPAM COMPLAINT thread might actually be entertaining if we had some Japanese developers flaming each other in English on it.
* Joey has hot news... <wichert> Joey: oh? <Joey> Very hot. <Joey> Our government sucks. <wichert> Joey: euh, that's hardly news
<Diziet> of: Can I phone you now? <Overfiend> Diziet: Gack!!! <Overfiend> Diziet: I don't want to die! <Diziet> You won't die!
* joeyh tries to figure out why lesbians@hotsex.com is subscribed to bay area Debian
* Culus gives espy a cookie <Culus> Remember kids, don't feed the trolls * Espy never accepts cookies from strangers, and Culus is quite strange :)
<Joey> Every Gnome app is a good app. :) <shaleh> Joey: No, please not you too (-: * Myth kills Joey
<uberfunk> tooltips/logically labeled buttons are for weenies
* Tv thinks someone at Netscape Communications thinks web surfing is bad for you, and makes the browser crash regularly.
<james> CR: ignoring for the moment that a) Theo has a
clue, and b) he has nothing to do with FreeBSD
<Thunder-> People still run stuff on dos 1.0 <Thunder-> Its still dead <Thunder-> :P
<Joy> Chief information officer? What's that mean? :) <wichert> Head FUD spreader <wichert> Also known as chief PR droid
<rcw> doogie: it's a longshot, but I'm hoping that logic may persuade Xu <joeyh> [logic] [persuade] [Xu] <joeyh> Parse error durring tokenization. Redo from start.
Weeks are the same thing as months. That is the secret behind the Debian release schedule.
<rmt> Culus: you mean it's almost at what it's worth? <Culus> Besides, worth is very nebulous when applied to stock
<woot> How do I cd to a dir called "~"? <woot> gnome-napster has decided to dump my mp3s there <woot> oh, escape it.
<woot> Sleep is for the people who must get up early tomorrow. *** Signoff: woot (and I am one of them.)
* stu kicks freebsd <uberfunk> stu: why are you running freebsd? <stu> uberfunk: because it's fast and cool <stu> Aww damn, i'll have to reboot to linux to play games
<Espy> Telnet is not really C++, it's more like C on crack
<Overfiend> tausq: I do PHP stuff at work...what's the scoop? <tausq> Overfiend: read my advogato diary :P <Overfiend> tausq: okay. No need to :P. :-P
Coool! Spammers use Debian too!! I think this clearly indicates that we are far and away the best distribution.
<Joy> Oh shit, Xu's got relatives in Debian! <Joy> From: Min Xu <mxu@Horse.ece.wisc.edu> * Joy ph33rz
<is> [leguin] % sudo nmap -p 80 -sS -O -o snova.log 62.232.6.55 <is> Starting nmap V. 2.12 by Fyodor (fyodor@dhp.com, www.insecure.org/nmap/) <is> My god! You seem to have WAY to many routes! <is> QUITTING! <is> Uuh? <is> Who broke nmap
<Culus> My god! <Culus> djb must be everyhere <liiwi> Culus: huh? <Culus> He just appeared on the exim list
You're a regular Jay Leno, aren't you? A real comedian. Someone uses your resources to SPAM others, and you say, in effect, "Hey, we only make the gun, we can't help it if a criminal uses it to kill somebody." For shame. Irresponsible.
<ibid> JHM: how's dark's finnish nowadays?
<JHM> I guess he's learning. Haven't spoken with him on
IRC since he moved.
<JHM> He sent me a copy of Hamlet, the restored Klingon
version, so I'll have to flex my language muscles :-)
<Joy> Joey: you filed a bug with "Wishlist: severity"
instead of "Severity: wishlist"! :))
Debian keeps it clean.
Debian - The Spirit of Linux
Ian thinks the BTS should use sauce. Film at 11 (joeyh) He hasn't contacted owner@b.d.o. Film canceled (gecko) Ian isn't part of the cabal, after all. (doogie)
<joeyh> Oh, postfix can mail you transcripts of smtp
sessions that violate the protocol.
* joeyh thinks he's in love.
<Knghtbrd> Espy: IWJ's idea of perl code scares me. <Espy> s/perl // <Knghtbrd> (actually most people's idea of perl code scares me) <Knghtbrd> Okay, iwj's idea of code in general then =>
* Knghtbrd still couldn't believe iwj didn't want him to patch dselect <Knghtbrd> Good gods, I couldn't have done worse!
<Espy> Dselect needs exactly one patch, a big one, a unified
diff with a large number of lines matching ^- :)
<Espy> shoot upstream [..] <Espy> shoot upstream I say again * Joey admires Espy for his good ideas
* Joey whispers "what a sucker that doesn't create mbox archives" <Espy> shoot upstream I say again
<joeyh> perl -ne 'BEGIN { open (OUT, ">mbox") } chomp; if (/^(\d+):/) { $f=$1; $f="0$f" if length $f < 2 } elsif (/; .*?(<.*>)/) {
$from=$1; open (IN, $f) || die "$f: $!"; print OUT "From $from Fri Jan 28 04:49:29 2000\n"; while (<IN>) { print OUT $_ } }'
index
<joeyh> charming
* Espy gives mailman 4 espies
<Peta> Espy: No. Not 4, maybe 2.5
<Espy> no, taking this case, adding that to the binary
databases, its annoying subscription reminders,
and over-reliance on web interface, that's definitely 4 :P
<Espy> Non-pickled python persistent objects,
try saying that three times fast
<woot> What do you mean, it's not packaged in Debian?
<BenC> Culus: your clock is way wrong <BenC> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:46:46 -0600 (MDT) <Culus> hardly <Culus> that is when it was sent <BenC> Culus: so why isn't this setup already? <Culus> because nobody set it up
We should start up a Debian stock market using bugs as currency.
<Joy> Heh, ITP: Constitution of Finland <doogie> Joy: RUN AWAY
I am interested in the samosa machines. Could you please send more information regarding these machines, including the prices. Do you have a machine that mixes, sheets and cuts the samosa pastry, but does not fill and glue.
<joeyh> - straight GPL when used with ghostsript <joeyh> - CUPS license otherwise <joeyh> But the CUPS license is just the GPL! <joeyh> Silly.
<_Anarchy_> telsa: rommable Debian will be potato chips
Just what the world needs. Debian provides yet another free, alternative, open-source, Linux based operating system. These things seem to breed like flies don't they? Did I mention it was free?
* Culus kills Omnic, all of Omnics friends, their friends and 500 random people who live near Omnic just to ward off others from liking Perl.
I want to know where i can find or buy Red Hat m68k for my Mac 68k
<wiggy> Argh, why did my mouse become invisible? <Joey> Got a cat?
<Robot101> kinder eggs have those orange or blue capsules inside
<Robot101> Forget about the chocolate and the toy, fill the capsule with
baking soda and vinegar, shake it, and chuck it in the air =)
<Robot101> (preferably in the direction of someone you don't like =)
Fabrizio: What would be the purpose of "freezing" the bible?
Branden: Because that way it is more effective as a tool
for smacking the heathen over the head.
Perhaps Debian is concerned more about technical excellence rather than ease of use by breaking software. In the former we may excel. In the latter we have to concede the field to Microsoft. Guess where I want to go today?
*** Espy is now known as Espy_on_crack <wiggy> Espy... Isn't that redundant?
> * Added pussy(1) manpage (closes: Bug#62931) man pussy, eh? Good to see Debian's breaking ground as a homoerotic Linux distribution.
<joeyh> Oh my, it's a UP P III. <doogie> Dos it. * joeyh runs dselect <Overfiend> That ought to be sufficient :)
<part> Overfiend: you're so subtle. How do you do it? <james> part: years of training and practice
... but if we all throw each other out, only the Cabal (which, of course, doesn't even exist) will be left to run Debian as they please...
* Culus watches the thread [..] spiral out of control as IWJ drives a tanker truck of Gasoline into the building.
Bug#62981: Emacs abort()s when I click mouse button 6 or 7 in it.
<Joy> dh_testdir still looks better than test -f debian/rules <Joy> Easier to skip :)
<forcer> gcc -O2 -Dump -Larry -Wall -c fnord.c
<joeyh> Nono, this would be a real alien <wiggy> define `real alien' <doogie> james, wiggy, and culus are 'real aliens'
<james> stu: you're my hero!
* aj would love to see how much bandwidth is used for pr0n <Joy> 45% for pr0n, 45% for mp3, the rest for mirroring Debian :)
<Culus> I live. I hunger. <Culus> Wait, I just ate.
<Culus> Has anyone seen james? <james> I think I saw him around here somewhere... not sure where he's gone though.
Debian has the only potato which if you stick it with a fork may generate zombies
Debian - even Hell freezes faster
<bma2> The freaking DOOR SECURITY GUARD is coming up to
the 6th floor to ask us linux quesitons.
<bma2> Strange days....
A genuine potato-powered web server. That's potato as in vegetable, not debian distro.
<calc> It is an ongoing joke, potato will be ready once
all the parts in it are obsolete ;)
<wiggy> overfiend apologizing? <wiggy> what is the world coming to?
<Overfiend> anyway, I have 4 bugs to report in the SPARC boot-floppies * james_work wonders when #Debian became an alias for submit@b.d.o
I agree, going from Red Hat to Debian is definitely an upgrade.
We had to run Debian kernels on RedHat boxes as a result of this.
<Overfiend> There is no way to summarize 1000 messages
In a world of NDA-bound business agreements, Debian is an open book.
In a world of mission statements, Debian has a Social Contract.
At a time when commercial distributors are striving to see how much proprietary software they can pack into a box of Linux, Debian remains the bastion of software freedom.
Well, we officially announce the birth of a new Debian Cabal: the Bordeaux Cabal.
To me, [...] is a job, a product to be completed on a schedule. Debian is part of a lifestyle--or at least the subset of my lifestyle that involves computers.
The Klingon approach to rpm vs dpkg: By your implied comparison between debian and redhat, you have challenged my family's honor! PREPARE TO DIE!
<Overfiend> Joey: you've spent so long in the CABAL that you have lost your ability to communicate with plebes
<edward> m2 moved the wnpp into the BTS <wiggy> bastard
<Culus> james: Where are you from then?
<james> Culus: Why would I tell you that? Then you could
actually make jokes that might offend me :-P
<Culus> You know, for things with Moo in the name you'd
expect a whole lot more cows
<Culus> Frankly - I'm disappointed
<darkewolf> Hmmms <darkewolf> Why do i have a Kangeroo skull in the bathroom?
<Culus> aj: Well, your idea can't even express a non-us, main, security archive :P <aj> Culus: we don't *have* a non-US main security archive <Culus> aj: irrelevent detail :P
<Joey> apt: doogie? * apt does the doogie woogie dance * doogie larts apt
<aj> Joey: Anyone ever told you you have too much time
on your hands?
<eRich> hat jemand erfahrung mit x4 + nvidia treiber? <eRich> your're too sexy for my shirt? - your're to new for my kernel?
<Culus> cmr: Okay.. so uh.. someone I've never heard of has given you root on our boxes, which, till now, I didn't know we had :>
<Omnic> What in the hell is libgc5 ? <wiggy> Garbage collectoin library <Omnic> wiggy: ??!?!? for C? <wiggy> Omnic: yes, why not? * Omnic runs away screaming
Debian continues to remind me of Xanadu -- good vision, sketchy implementation.
<Overfiend> BenC: knghtbrd is too busy bitching about
GNOME to maintain his packages
<wiggy> Is Joy a slimmed down younger version of Joey?
<Tv> while (<>) { s{<dd><a href="(.+)">.+</a>}{<dd><fileurl "$1">}mg; } or whatever.
<Tv> If it's a one-time hack, don't spend too much time.
<Tv> If it's permanent, don't do anything that sucky.
<Tv> You perl suckily, but on the other hand,
your perl also sucks.
3039 Nov 27 Ian Eure ( 14) massive memory leaks in X 3042 NS Nov 28 Branden Robinso ( 36) >Massive clue leaks in Debian
<Crow-> @touch /etc/passwd 2>/dev/null || echo Be root you fool. <Crow-> WHAT THE FUCK <Crow-> Thats a makefile rule to determine if you are root during install
<elmo> trueprint_5.1-4_i386.changes <elmo> SKIP (too new) [..] <elmo> blindman: ignore the "SKIP (too new)", just pretend it says "REJECT"
<Overfiend> Will it just fall over and die on non-i386 machines? <Overfiend> That pisses me off. <Overfiend> Other arches need love too.
But as long as Debian users continue to have children, it will have a market :)
<Lo-lan-do> Warning, Overfiend alert! Duck everyone!
Not even the mighty force of Debian can change the location of /dev/log.
<Joey> so what :) * Robot101 larts Joey
I'm getting too geekish in my old age... I used to have a life, but I traded it for a Debian box :)
<doogie> Linus uses pine? Don't tell Overfiend.
> Security problem report... > > [root@irongate linux.ac]# RESOLV_HOST_CONF=/etc/shadow ping debian.org > ^^^^^^^^ Remind me not to answer email when asleep.
<stu> Why is this kernel called 2.4.0? <stu> I thought unstable kernels had odd-numbered minor versions..
* Since debian still relies on /etc/pam.d/ssh instead of moving to /etc/pam.d/ssh, I had to hack ssh.h to get ssh to use this name.
* shaleh finds a dark alley near where dark works and waits for him * shaleh is going insane fixing lintian
<Viiru> Damn. I should be more careful. I just started
downloading anime into my 2.4.0 source directory.
<Viiru> Because of things like this, my homedir is a hell of a mess.
Note that I'm using a non-standard man location (www.debian.org is running FreeBSD :-( ).
<ltd> Knghtbrd: and just because bugs are a year old,
that doesn't mean they aren't fixed :>
<ltd> I tend to use the BTS more as a guide than a religion
In Debian, capitalism has no place, as there is no currency, and we don't exchange anything.
I never knew this list was for a specific distro? You're right; it's named "debian-user" for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Every minute and every dollar spent on Plex86 is a win for the free software community and Debian.
Shock! Horror! Are you seriously saying that you think it is acceptable for Debian developers to be unable to program?
joeyh: Joey is interested in shoop. How should we scare him?
I can't believe this! No, actually I can believe it -- this is Debian after all.
<Joy> what does Demonishi mean anyway? :) <Joey> Joy: female Overfiend :) <Demonishi> Joey: HAHAHA <Joy> Joey: ROTFL
A small flood of security announcements from Debian came in last night and this morning to the LWN.net offices.
Please, save yourself the trouble and don't use Debian.
<Lo-lan-do> joey, doogie: You're crazy. I love that.
I am sick and tired of your chatty project filled full of chatty flaming closed mailing list assholes.
<weasel> 3.1.0.0 Oct 99 <weasel> 3.2.0.0 Aug 00 <weasel> 3.2.1.1 Jan 01 <weasel> 3.5.0.0 Jan 28 <weasel> Hmm <weasel> Wir haben eine Policy aus der Zukunft
<Viiru> mstone: Ok. Let's just agree to disagree, ok?
I've had too many flamewars today.
Debian needs to "hire" administrative assistants so the quality geek time is not wasted.
<elmo> Oh shit. <elmo> Overfiend: Whatever you do, don't close your ssh session
* Tv thwaps joeyh with the changelog cluebat. <Tv> * Gar! Closes: #84219
<Zugschlus> $ echo "la|ber" | sed 's/\|/\|/g' <Zugschlus> |l|a|||b|e|r| <Zugschlus> Hä?
<liiwi> Joey: shut up and go back to your coffin. The slayers are near. <liiwi> Joey: erm. sorry. too much Buffy last night.
*sigh* You'd think a distribution composed of 6000 packages distributed across 13 different architectures (in various stages between pre-alpha and release quality), maintained by 700 amateurs with often conflicting goals who're globally distributed and have rarely met each other -- you'd think a distribution like that would be simpler...
<wiggy> the rasterman virus has taken joey.. <wiggy> lots of typos <wiggy> the sign of raster
Anything in Debian main can be used for anti-social behavior, thank goodness.
* liiwi kicks MIME::Parser <BenC> liiwi: Watch it... Perl modules tend to kick back
+ it's DEADJOE, not DEAD_JOEY
<Culus> Do you know what happens to pandora every time
someone puts a billion megabytes of upgrades on it!?
<Culus> Leiden is going to boot us :P
<Joey> You caused me grief and pain! <Overfiend> Yeah, well, you paid me back, trust me. <Overfiend> I'm the current "security officer" for Progeny <Overfiend> So you kept me hopping today :-P
<wiggy> This is government <wiggy> Government rarely makes sense
<aaronl> We need a daily message to debian-devel-changes
stating "starting mirror pulse"
<aaronl> ... and another for "finished mirror pulse"
<willy> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg recieved a segmentation fault.
<Tv> Tie a rubber rabbit on a string -- hours of fun for your dog! :-)
<joeyh> oh, shit <joeyh> I just found non-free code in slrn
Wheeee, Perl you are such a bloody moron...
Fixed various things, like a single sentence with two colons, seven commas, seven lines, and a pair of parenthesis :))
Joey: You have been referred to me as, "The Debian Dude that gets things done".
Log message: Spellling fix
Imagine 5 Joey clones in Debian. *phear* That would be the end of all commercial distributions ;)
* Joey is not to pester! tbm, go away. * Joy notes Joey has entered a rejection mode :) <Joy> go away everybody :)
* Joy notes Joey has entered a rejection mode :) <Joy> go away everybody :)
So, a non-developer filed a non-bug against a non-package.
* dark plays the "1 mbit, 2 mbit, 3 mbit clock" song.
$sorted_langs{$trans{$langs{$_}}{$_}} = $_;
Note to self: don't borrow from Swedish if you can't remember to modify the spelling of _all_ the words.
<Joy> Joey: great minds think alike ;)
$tv->stop_hacking('jpilot'); no lights; no music; push @futon, $tv; $brain = pop @tv; chomp $brain;
Debian today announced that they have 100K bugs in their system but no longer have any idea what they are.
apt is a Debian native package that everyone thinks they know how to do better; it attracts insane wishlist bugs like it attracts shit to flies.
<Christian> Joey: are you simply the cabal? :P
The Debian Truth Ministry has changed the English word "autobuilder" to "buildd".
<!--German Translators should put a "real" intro in here-->
<manty> I'll continue trying to debug this after the shower,
don't switch your channel ;-)
Debian: All the power, no red hats, no green chameleons.
I have no problem with you updating a Debian mirror, but please only update it on a daily basis instead of every second.
Actually, the Debian glibc package has more uptodate bits than our CVS tree.
<seeS> So you are in "the state that is Joey"
* lilo wants to package Joey * lilo ducks <wiggy> instant joey * robster is towards NM and an OPN admin, hhm <lilo> joey-in-a-box? <rcw> just add water?
<liiwi> asuffield: Just shell is enough. <liiwi> Though, if I can get moshez to squirrel, I'll do it in Perl :P
All you apt-get are belong to us. dist-upgrade now for great honour.
Gee, from what you said it seems like Debian is a jungle...
BagelMouse: Debian policy, porn, same thing.
And I thought Debian users were smart enough not to reply to chain letters.
* joeyh just has problems with checking spam into cvs and mirroring it all over the place which is what I do with my normal mail archives.
* michaelw does the buildd shuffle
<BenC> auric's disks are for DAM/ftpmaster to store their pron <BenC> Oops... That was top secret
Debian is not deadrat. If a user can't figure out what kind of mouse they have, they need to find a less complex occupation. Like knitting.
<michaelw> "Debian GNU/LINUX Version 2.4.0" <michaelw> ... YOU BASTARDS! didn't tell me ;( <michaelw> *shrug* i can buy it off ebay...
You spelled Debian without ucfirst(), twice!
<Omnic> *monitor off*
...
<StevenK> Omnic probably sits and waits for 5 minutes after he says
'*monitor off*'
<Omnic> do not
* dark wonders if debian-keyring is competing with XFree86 for the longest changelog prize.
* Lo-lan-do assumes people are observing a minute of silence every minute and a half.
<Oskuro> Overfiend: many patches on top of 4.0.1 already? <Overfiend> Oskuro: a few <Overfiend> only 152 megs
* Overfiend still thinks Xu should be forced to rename ash to "xush"
* Joy slaps hmh and Joey around with a fish or something
<doogie> Subject: ->Have Bigger Breasts -- Men will Notice! (140949) <doogie> Yeah, that's for me!
* Hacked debian/rules to cope with new xmkmf breakage.
* joeyh thinks it's probably a bad sign when mutt begins threading your spam
* Overfiend still thinks Xu should be forced to rename ash to "xush" <Overfiend> Thus clearing the way for the real ash to be packaged.
<dark> 8 is the _only_ tab width. All else is delusion. * liiwi moves 8 characters away from dark
It's kind of hard to use Debian without becoming active in it's development.
Remind me never to cancel an Abiword build before it generates the main makefiles. Then the debian/rules clean target fails on the next build and there's a bunch of crap in the diff. I have to build it fully twice to get it back to a good state.
<two-face> Are there IRC clients for vi? <Overfiend> two-face: Why are you ALWAYS on crack? <Overfiend> Is it something in the water where you live?
<haggie> Moin Joey <Joey> Moin haggie & Feanor <Feanor> ahem, what's moin mean? <o-o> Feanor: Northern Germany universal greeting
It's a sign of the incredible levels of trust and cooperation in Debian that debian-ctte has been used as infrequently as it has.
* StevenK quotes DanielS out of context. <Overfiend> I'm not sure DanielS *has* context...
<aj> You'd have to convince wiggy. <doogie> I had to convince him to do .17 <doogie> He wanted to upload HEAD
*** eXorZist has been kicked off channel #debian.de by Alfie (< I See U - I kick U >)
No, that says you can't sue Sun. You can't sue Debian anyway; it doesn't legally exist.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y debconf: (not preconfiguring packages since apt-utils is not installed)
Even if we don't believe that this could lead into somebody gaining access of another users account if he hasn't lost his brain, we recommend that you upgrade your nvi packages. Debian Security Advisory 085-1
Rebuilt against the new expat, which UNEXPECTEDLY BROKE BINARY COMPATIBILITY
<Overfiend> OW OW OW OW OW, Jesus CHRIST. We're supposed to be
FROZEN and our LIBC and BINUTILS are maintained by
CVS ADDICTS whose LEFT HAND is SUPERGLUED to their DICKS.
<Overfiend> * New upstream version (synced with CVS 2001-10-21) <Overfiend> HE'S GOT BEN COLLINS DISEASE
<Overfiend> "*PANT* *PANT* YEAH BABY!!!! FRESH COMMITS TO CVS!!!!" *PANT* *PANT*
<Alfie> ls -l `which YaST`: /usr/sbin/YaST -> /usr/games/fortune
<elmo> No IRC nick?? What a nobody!!
There are days when I feel I should introduce myself saying: "Hi, I'm from the license pedanticists, or I mean debian,"
If by "hacker crowds" you mean expert technologists who care about things like quality of implementation, and care more about the actual content than the presentation, well, yeah I'd expect Debian is pretty much restricted to hacker crowds.
* doogie sets topic for... <Overfiend> GAR, DOOGIE YOU OVERFLOWED THE TOPIC BUFFER IN MY DICKLESS IRC CLIENT <doogie_> not my problem.
<Joey> Ok, we're fucked, damn!
<StevenK> Joey: Damnit, stop making sense!
Both XFree86 and Debian have release cycles measured in geological time.
<mhp> Bluehorn: The Cabal (TINC) have all the chicks.
Legislating where you can and can't talk about Debian issues is bureaucracy gone mad.
<Overfiend> Updated build log libdvdread2_0.9.1-5_m68k for unstable (successful) <Overfiend> heh. What a cock tease of a package <Overfiend> D00D!!! I'll be able to watch DVD's on my MACQUARIUM!
* DanielS can't believe he's been 4 days without IRC. <DanielS> but it's been about the most productive 4 days of my life.
* Alfie hates it when his lazyness is handicaped.
<wiggy> Joy is Xu'ing klecker!
<Joey> Joey, provide a patch then.
<Ian> I plan to be there. I shall wear a 12 foot long orange scarf. <Steve> Ian - this happened last Friday!
* elmo beats on ljlane <elmo> kdebindings build-depends on libgtk1.3-dev? Err...
It's a popular practice on the Debian lists these days to confuse people's personal opinions with official Project dicta, so pay attention.
Dselect has been the bug-a-boo scaring novice users from installing Debian.
You know, we have just under 13k open bugs now? A few years ago we were getting down towards 5k...
I consider myself a friend of Debian. They are the nice people who gave me an enjoyable operating system, thereby returning control of my computer to me.
Maybe it is time for the kernel development process to take a cue from the Debian Project. Debian development does not stop when a release is frozen; the development and stabilization processes go on in parallel. Debian is no faster than the kernel at producing new major releases, but those releases, when the finally come, tend to be solid. The continued presence of an unstable release relieves the temptation to throw inappropriate thing into the frozen version.
<Kamion> Package: vrms <Kamion> Maintainer: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> <canard> Package would be renamed to arms, actual RMS
Oh, btw, you don't speak for Debian either David. There, wasn't that a helpful, relevant and useful comment?
* Joey needs an Overfiend to nuke frankie <StevenK> AN OVERFIEND? WE HAVE MORE THAN ONE!??
Error: /usr/bin/savelog not found. Are you sure you're running a Debian system? :-)
<Joey> I guess I should frighten now. <Joey> +tinc 655/tcp # tinc control port <Joey> If that isn't a sign of cabal... * liiwi hands Joey a mug of warm glög and tells him to calm down.
What should we do, all the Debian maintainers drinking the berr belonging to me are really surprised about that strange and annoying bug.
what the Hell is this Debian thing on my computer? I didnt authorize anyone to install it.
<RevKrusty> Any HPPA ppl around? <RevKrusty> Ack... mipsel's compiler croaking trying to build kdemultimedia...
<wiggy> NNNNOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo <wiggy> typo in debian/rules clean <wiggy> it zapped debian/rules itself <wiggy> 150 lines of code gone :(
You know, if debs were really better than rpms, all Debian tools would be distributed as debs...
<liw> I greet you, oh godlings
<Kamion> Hm, how come there're no Contents files for {mips,mipsel,s390} in dists/woody?
<Joey> Kamion: There is no content?
* Kamion files a bug
<asuffield> Joey: If there was any chance of you digging
yourself out of this hole, you wouldn't need us ;)
<seeS> when woody freezes, will it still be called woody? <asuffield> seeS: no, it will be renamed to "stiffy"
Huh? When did debian-legal become the upstream authors of anything?
BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War.
If someone maintains a package, and uploads it to Debian, he better be ready to stand behind the quality of his work.
If you ever want to know pain, send a stupid sounding e-mail to a Debian list.
<robster> I'm not so lonely that I need to install Emacs <lilo> robster: for Eliza mode?
The beauty of Debian is that it is very well documented for the beginner and with a high bandwidth connection can be downloaded and installed quite easily.
We don't do marketing, we do a good and stable free software distribution.
Debian has too many developers. Maybe they should start recycling, FIFO fashion
<netgod> There's 31,000 usages of "a RPM" and 51,000 of "an RPM" <netgod> I think i may have been outvoted
* asuffield would not use google as a grammar reference
<doogie> netgod: like google is a source of truth
[lots of discussion about wearing long hair] <seeS> You all sound like a bunch of girls
<Joy> Oh, life sucks <Joy> There's an Iranian who can translate www.debian.org into Farsi. <Joy> But the Linux editors don't let him enter Unicode properly.
[Start a new Debian port] 1. Get rid off your job, your hobbies and all your friends.
<aj> (that one was uploaded by someone other than aph actually) <aj> (might've been cjwatson, i forget) <aj> err, watson? walters? whatever <aj> arg, they're both colin's! no wonder i'm confused
Senior Developer is a community placed title, which fits in perfectly well with the community aspect of Debian.
Adam, if I would not know it better, I'd guess you would come from Germany. There is much bureaucracy in Germany and I was hoping I would not be confronted with such things in Debian.
<elmo> Policy specifically does not use 822 format for the Maintainer field * joeyh rolls on the floor
If someone like Jim [Gettys], who has decades of Unix experience, needs help transitioning to Debian, then Debian has serious usability problems.
<Viiru> Why such a small topic? <Viiru> Is nothing broken?
Summary: I am happy to recommend the acceptance of Jesus as a Debian Maintainer.
Here's the latest rsync fix from Debian. This one not only fixes the remotely exploitable vulnerability in rsync, but it also manages to not break rsync in the process.
* hartmans is dubious. I have a lot of respect for aj, but watching aj and Joey discuss what key to sign release files with was painful.
<bdale> What do we have for playing avi files? <zanaga> avifile <bdale> Heh. I'd have never guessed that...
For the Linux folks - if Debian can do their huge package collection in the timescale with only volunteers nobody else has any excuse.
People who report debian as the source of spam do not deserve to be a member of the debian lists community.
Debian doesn't have to be slower than time.
Why does Debian take so long to release? Because people would rather discuss this subject than fix release critical bugs?
The first thing worth pointing out, of course, is that the unstable [Debian] distribution is usually solid as a rock.
Debian: giving you the power to shoot yourself in each toe individually.
* sjh wonders if only computer geeks would get the joke if a publican named his establishment foo
* ElectricElf grumbles about people who use something they don't understand to get something they can get from something they do understand.
<luferbu> ps auuxx <luferbu> duh <Jeroen> it's /who for IRC :)
<Overfiend> Come on, don't you guys get it? "HOLY FUCK!!! WE'VE HAD
A SECURITY INCIDENT!!! THE FIRST THINGS TO GO WILL BE THE
CRYPTOGRAPHIC PROTOCOLS!
The plaintext barn doors can stay open a while longer..."
<Joey> How is LSB pronounced in english? <willy> ell-ess-bee <Overfiend> Joey: "Doomed, Half-Assed Effort"
VMWare contracted with Brainfood to develop a GPL'ed version, but the code just got hax0red everybody pitch in!
Make no mistake, Debian has enemies that would stop at nothing to destroy us. The cabal fights secret battles daily to hide this from the average developer, a world of evil that would corrupt them if they ever learned of it.
<Overfiend> bah, the cabal goes for days at a time without even reading Debian mail :-P <Joy> Overfiend: not true, Joey always reads mail ;) <Overfiend> who said Joey was in the cabal? :) <Joy> point ;)
<asuffield> mhp: you are accepting applicants based on the size of their tamagotchis?
* Manoj notes that all the mail sent to secretary@debian.org routes itself to the spam folder ;-( <Overfiend> Manoj: that's clever :)
<joeyh> I route the spamassassin-talk mailing list to my spam folder, just to have something interesting to read amidst the spam.
<rcw> pitr: Is the goal of Debian to package everything
that policy does not specifically exclude?
* Omnic notes that both DanielS and StevenK need to learn to take everything with a grain of salt
Local admins should never talk to the Debian populace, ever. They should only talk to DSA (thru -admin), and DSA should filter than on to everyone else.
<Manoj> __> egrep LC_ ~/.bash_vars <Manoj> LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 <Manoj> LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 <Manoj> LANG=en_US.UTF-8 <Clint> impressive egrep that matches LANG to LC_ * Clint grins.
<greg_> I belive I need some LD_??? variable set. But which one?
Where/how should I look for the list of LD_* variables?
<Manoj> __> egrep LC_ ~/.bash_vars
<Manoj> LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8
<Manoj> LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8
<Manoj> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<Manoj> Ooops. You said LD_
Debian: Everything looks broken until you realize it's just the only distro done correctly...
Our advisory is ready as well, but it's currently somewhat stuck in a battle between Michael Stone and the filter in front of debian-security-announce.
Undocumented? Proprietary? You might want to switch to GNU/Linux Debian, an "apt-get install cvs" gives you access to all the documentation.
* doogie kicks postgres <doogie> it can't compare varchar(16) with char(16)
One of the problems in the non-Debian world is the RPM package system. While it is quite nice for installing distributor-made packages (if you pick the right RPMs for your version), it becomes a terrible mess when installing author-generated RPMs: Libraries are missing or mismatching, and RPM has no way to find out where to get the missing packages needed for installation.
There are 0.345 million people per Debian developer in Finland.
I saw FreeBSD packaged it and Debian didn't, and was immensely annoyed.
Debian: We Fix Bugs In Crap Nobody Uses
Debian: but we don't fix bugs in packages that people actually use.
<stockholm> culus?! <stockholm> my apt does not work!!!
Your technically accurate and coherent description of the problems you were facing let me severely doubt that your problems were due to *any* of Debian's own shortcomings.
Unfortunately you are only one of Debian's consumer type users for which we have no use for.
Part of the reason Branden is the X maintainer, is because X is possibly the hardest package in Debian to maintain, and Branden is willing and able to do a job most of the rest of us couldn't or wouldn't.
<bdale> Joey: I'm in the right building, actually, but
have to run to a meeting... will poke at it in a bit.
<xtifr> bah, only on duty a day, and already he's neglecting
his responsibilities! :)
apt-get install blackbox Remember, this is Debian, not Mandrake.
<moshez> MADKISS: SAVE ARCH INDEPENDENT DATA <Joy> that sounds like a frenetic geek version of "save the trees!"
<moshez> o/~ save the bandwidth, make it a better place o/~ <moshez> o/~ for you and for me and the entire human race o/~
And we can always work on EFS writing support in Debian later, once everybody's SGI is running Debian.
<Mithrandir> Overfiend ?
<mihtjel> Mithrandir: Just yell "Why isn't XF4.2 in Woody?" ;)
<Mithrandir> mihtjel : could do that, but then he probably
wouldn't be too happy fixing other stuff for me. :)
Maybe we need a new sub-distribution, Debian for glue-sniffers?
Debian is the de facto portability laboratory for XFree86 on Linux.
cutting-edge or not, we should all realize that debian's more than just another distro. for me, it's a lifesaver.
<Jaq> zarq: There is a secret cabal list that only the release
manager can see, where he puts little ticks and crosses next
to packages he likes/doesn't like. Just like Santa Claus.
<wiggy> infinity: it's simple <wiggy> first there was joey <wiggy> then at some point joeyh was added <wiggy> and the latest addition is joy <wiggy> the interesting question is: <wiggy> will the next one have a longer or shorter nick?
<Manoj> oh, czech is a spoken language as well? :P <asuffield> Manoj: czech is choked, not spoken
<willy> what's the pair of letters which are a vowel in welsh? <willy> not `ll', that's pronounced `th'... <Manoj> ll is pronounced th?!!! <willy> in welsh, yes
<willy> llanelli is pronounced `thlanethli' <Manoj> I can't pronounce the latter anyway <Manoj> My tongue gets ted up in a knot
<Manoj> Kamion: you mean if one dug deeper into etymological
origins, there is logic buried in there?
<Robot101> What's that perl one-liner to crypt a password? <mstone> Just post your password and I'll post the crypted version.
<Zed> Bleh. I hate English. Why can't someone come up
with a more consistent language for general use?
<aj> Zed: cause it wouldn't be any fun. why do you think Perl got invented?
* Manoj decides to experiment with cvs Emacs. I mean, I am running cvs-gnus, cvs-bbdb, cvs-url, cvs-w3, so hey, what the heckk...
Most threats to sue me are down to people who get porn spam, reply to it, get a bounce from an exim MTA and decide the guilty party must be exim.org - and Debian as the largest promoter of Exim have to take the blame here...
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Debian GNU/Linux - only dead fish go with the flow i686; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011012
Maybe you should make the Debian booth bigger, or split it in two... - "Debian Users" - "Debian Maintainers" in opposite corners of the hall, with only the BTS between them. The former submit useless patches and the latter ignore them...
<Joy> Oh god, there's a Chinese version of release notes * Joy recalls all the charset mumbo jumbo the Chinese web translation needs * Joy faints
<elmo> lisa's miiiiiiiiiine, all miiiiiiiiiiiiine ;), amber is the buffy maniacs
Are you implying that the Hurd is violating the FHS and thus Debian policy?
<Joy> wonder if i can reconfigure eth0 aliases on a machine while ssh'd into it remotely <mstone> yes, if you don't screw it up <mstone> screw it up and you're screwed
<Joy> thom: pfft, clara.net's backbone from Paris to Frankfurt is mere 155mbit :) <Joey> Paris to Frankfurt? and then to karlsruhe, to DebianDay. <Joy> Joey: we were talking about network packets, not people :)
<drs> I want to be a debian developer, how can I find 'an existing
developer who thinks that the applicant has sufficient
knowledge to start the New Maintainer process.'
<willy> drs: hang out, make friends, fix bugs
Our target group are debian-newbies, so not providing tasksel and instead forcing the use of dselect does not sound like a very good idea to me.
Hurd does not exist alone in the universe, it exists alongside Debian.
If the Hurd is going to be "the GNU system" without any qualifiers, we should start calling this "Debian Linux", surely?
<aj> oh fuck <aj> [aj@azure ~/blahblah]$ find ~/mail -type f | grep -E '/(cur|new)/' | while read a; do x=$(basename $(dirname $a)); ln $a big_dir/$x/$(basename $a); done <aj> Segmentation fault <aj> that can't be good, can it?
You keep saying that you're going to leave Debian. I think it's high time that you do so.
<Joey> No time for DWN, it's not even prepared. <Joey> Need to fork() myself tonight.
<liiwi> does the standard Joeylibrary provide clone()?
But right now Debian is paranormal. Nothing works like it used to.
<Manoj> 6.5k articles to go to download into inn2 <dres> Manoj: you newsserver your mailing lists? <Manoj> only 6268 BPS <Manoj> dres: no, I still read USENET <dres> Manoj: freak! ;)
*** Unknown CTCP FOOBAR from Overfiend to #debian-devel: * Joey smacks Overfiend with a foo on the left and a large bar on the right <Overfiend> ooooops <Overfiend> that went out?
<aj> Where there is injustice in the world, I shall be there! <aj> I shall not be silenced! <aj> The world shall know! <aj> The world *must* know! <elmo> Oh dear, he's gone back to powerpuff girls...
<elmo> Oh dear, he's gone back to powerpuff girls... <aj> yay powerpuff girls!! <aj> buttercup's my favourite, who's yours? <aj> you're backing away from the keyboard right now aren't you? <aj> *AREN'T YOU*?! <aj> I will not be treated like this. <aj> I shall have my revenge. <aj> I SHALL!!!
<dhd> W3 H4V3 PL3NTY 0F BUGZ!!1! D0NUT 4SK H0W M4NY 0R W3 W1LL R3WT U! PH33R!
<aj> ARRRGGGHHH <aj> What's wrong with me!?!?!? <aj> I was just nice to some mormon doorknockers!!!
<Culus> aj: GET THE HELL OUT OF THE CABAL! :P
All organisations, including Debian, have a culture with certain values and assumptions which its members are hardly aware of. These assumptions are built into manuals and procedures, written and unwritten.
<aj> neuro: <usual question>? <neuro> aj: PPG: the movie! july 3! <aj> _PHWOAR_!!!!! <aj> (you think you can distract me, and you're right) <aj> urls?! <aj> promo videos?! <aj> where, where!?
Once we see that they can fit in with the rest of Debian, then Hurd will be given the credence it desires. Until then, most requests will fall on deaf ears.
<elmo> well.. *shrug*.. no, probably not.. but to fix it,
we're going to have to implement reference counting
through dependencies.. do we really want to go down
that road?
<Culus> elmo: Augh! <brain jumps out of skull>
<aj> elmo: you're making me waste 5 seconds per architecture!!!!!!
YOU BASTARD!!!!!
Somehow a few people think they should have the power over whole Debian.
Once we see that they can fit in with the rest of Debian, then Hurd will be given the credence it desires.
Requireing Debian GNU/Hurd to follow a Linux-specific file system standard doesn't make a lot of sense, for example...
GNU/Hurd is already part of debian, it deserves as much consideration as any other part, no more, no less.
HOWEVER, Debian GNU/Hurd is *not* to be GNU/Hurd with Debian packages. It is to be a _Debian_ system with the Hurd kernel.
If being "Hurdish" is more important to you than being "Debianish", then as far as *I* am concerned, you are welcome to fork the project, and go away.
And if Debian is commited to the LINUX Standards Base, do you expect Debian GNU/Hurd and Debian *BSD(s) to also comply to the Linux Standards Base?
I think Hurd people are getting a rough ride, but their strugle is making debian better, I applaud their stamina.
The problem with some Debian developers is that they think they can use all Debian GNU/Linux things on GNU/Hurd and *BSD without a problem. That's not the case.
The other fucking problem is that some Debian developers don't want to listen if you have a different opinion. A lot of people on this list are closed-minded like hell.
Actually, since I only subscribe to debian-devel, I didn't see much need for letting people on debian-hurd know that I was killfiling Jeroen.
I don't care, he's completely irrelevant to Debian development and is the Hurd port's worst advocate, so knowing that there's one more flaw in his world view won't bother me in the least.
The current system is Debian, as described by debian-policy. Although the only released target is Linux, I don't see that debian-policy is particularly Linux specific.
Is there a native Hurd distribution? I'm not sure. Perhaps you're trying to make Debian into that product.
If you want a BSD system that feels like FreeBSD, run FreeBSD. Why change Debian to feel like FreeBSD - what is the advantage?
Why would the debian-hurd subscribers ignore debian-devel? That's a telling attitude.
Until that time, Hurd developers need to follow Debian Policy wherever possible, even if it's braindead (which I don't think it is, but just in case).
Still, Debian uses FHS, so Debian GNU/Hurd will also be FHS-compliant. Else it won't be Debian GNU/Hurd. What's so hard about that?
But I am not shy to try to change Debian where I think the change is an improvement. And I am not shy to give Debian a personality that makes Debian GNU/Linux and Debian GNU/Hurd people happy.
All organisations, including Debian, have a culture with certain values and assumptions which its members are hardly aware of.
Something the size of Debian requires more than the ability to yell loudly, it requires the ability to work with a large group of people, and to understand how consensus is derined, and how work gets done.
Debian has evolved as a bunch of people who are trying, through various and diverse reasons of their own, to get the Best working set of UNIX like toolsets and envoronments going.
Debian is successful, but it also needs to change.
The cabals are Debian GNU/Linux centred.
As I see it, Debian GNU/Hurd can, at most, be a system that helps people install, test, hack on, and play with, the Hurd as it is now. It can never fulfill RMS' dream he wrote down in the GNU Manifesto; consider the fact that Debian and GNU define 'Free Software' in a different way.
I should have been more clear there: Debian's hurd-i386 port should do so. The Hurd, of course, should do what it thinks or feels to be best; and if that means 'implement GNU Coding Standards to the letter', then so be it.
The process of reevaluating Debian's policy is a healthy one, and can only lead to an even better policy.
Without cooperation it isn't possible, that's why I quit Debian.
Debian distributes 3 different operating systems, GNU/Linux, BSD and GNU. Debian itself isn't an operating system.
When I install Debian(be it Linux/alpha, Linux/s390, FreeBSD/arm), I want to know it functions like Debian, with all of it's filesystem layouts and interface programs.
If Debian Linux/alpha, Debian FreeBSD/arm, and Debian hurd-i386 are all different, then what is the point of Debian?
Conversely, if Debian FreeBSD is identical to FreeBSD, what's the point of Debian?
Maybe the Hurd people really do need an independent distribution, one that's not associated with the Debian OS, so we won't continue to confuse issues of Hurd technical purity with Debian conformance.
Debian doesn't own/maintain the programs that made the OS, it "only" (sorry for that term) packages them together, so it's called a distribution.
I wanted to change Debian, but I walked to a wall of arrogant closed-minded people with no time and those people have all the power over Debian.
It's not that I want to fight against Debian. I want to cooperate, but I'm not going to give up my ideals for that.
People are just saying that Debian GNU/Hurd should be the same as Debian GNU/Linux, as much as technically possible.
You miss some very important thing in your naming. It's Debian GNU/NetBSD, Debian GNU/Linux and Debian GNU(/Hurd). You see: GNU, GNU and GNU. That's why I think it would be easier for Debian to follow GNU standards. But if Debian doesn't want it, I don't care.
A given file should normally be in the same place on every Debian system. I think this is a principle that everyone can live with.
I looked and RedHat still has the /usr/libexec so I wonder why Debian can't be.
...if I'm permitted to. I can think of at least one prominent Debian Developer who howls with outrage every time I dare bring the point up for discussion. This prominent developer also has a fairly close association with the Debian Policy Manual, so that tool might be used as a weapon against any efforts of mine in that endeavor.
People who update the policy documents according to approved proposals as tracked by the BTS do not have more or less "veto power" over policy proposals than any other Debian developer.
Are you now a proponent of self censorship for any one who may ever hold any position of responsibility in Debian?
Are we who hold offices in Debian to become sheep now?
Since when do strong opinions on IRC translate to power in Debian?
Debian GNU/Hurd can never be 2 things. GNU/Hurd can be one thing, and Debian GNU/Hurd can be something else.
You should *not* blatantly ignore Debian's policy just because you think it's braindead.
I know; but *this* *is* *not* *GNU*. Debian *does* care. Jeez
It's called Debian GNU/Hurd because Debian GNU can be confused with Debian GNU/Linux.
I think you'll find that Debian is far more than the kernel that Linus wrote in '91.
Again, we're about choice, not enforced dogma. I think we all agree that you're looking for something other than Debian.
I think we need to be careful not to equate the Hurd with any particular individual. Whether Jeroen Dekkers chooses to work with Debian or not should have no real impact on Debian's support for the Hurd port.
The Debian Hurd and BSD ports should first and foremost be Debian systems, and policy-compliance is central to Debian's identity -- even when it would be more convenient to ignore it.
We want that "Hurdish" and "Debianish" mean the same thing, that is the Right Thing.
I doubt the Hurd can fit in with the rest of Debian.
Who said anything about Linux? This is *Debian* you must be compatible with.
The current standard is how Debian functions. Hurd should be molded to fit Debian, not Debian molded to fit Hurd.
Modifying Debian to work with Hurd, means that *ALL* other ports of Debian need to be modified. Is that what you really want?
The problem is that binaries from *BSD won't run on Debian *BSD and we have to change every GNU package and the GNU coding standards.
Debian is only GNU/Linux at the moment. Being compatible with Debian thus means being compatible of GNU/Linux.
I think it's too philosophical for Debian; most of them are part of the open source movement and want to avoid talking about freedom, philosophy and ideology.
<jlj> MS infiltrating Debian? They surely named that operation 'Enduring Freedom'
Ah! I knew there was a reason we had the Debian Open Source Guidelines (DOSG), that we're the only Linux distribution that doesn't acknowledge GNU in its title, that we stuffed KDE into our distribution ASAP, GPL violations or no GPL violations...it all makes sense now!
You keep saying that you're going to leave Debian. I think it's high time that you do so. Every mail you still spend on this thread will just do more damage to your cause.
If your idea is that the Debian package should not do anything that upstream doesn't stamp with their seal of approval, then we need someone to handle the job of maintaining the Debian package, since you don't seem interested in that.
I want to see GNU released before 2005. That won't happen with Debian.
A port of Debian is supposed to be a Debian system which runs on another platform. That means it's a policy-compliant system which is, as far as is practical, the same as all the other ports of Debian.
The thing in the archive's "hurd-i386" section has never demonstrated any interest in becoming a port of Debian. It appears to be an attempt to create a different system which happens to run a wide selection of Debian packages.
I suggest that the "Hurd people" get an archive set up somewhere at gnu.org, and create their new operating system. Someday, somebody might port Debian to it.
Debian cabal philosophy: Ignore the problems, treat the people talking about those problems as a fool.
I already have found out for myself. I don't want to be part of Debian anymore, I rather go to a place without dictators who think they are God.
Nobody's saying The Hurd can't ditch the Debian Way. However, if The Hurd wants to stay part of Debian, it can not do so.
GNU is GNU. Debian is just a distribution.
Debian is Debian is Debian. If Debian is ported to Linux, then Linux must be modified to fit the Debian OS. Same for the Debian port to Hurd.
If there's to be a "Linux" specific annex, and a "GNU" specific annex, why would you expect "Debian GNU/Linux" to follow the former but not the latter?
If somebody would have explained me this earlier I probably would have unsubscribed from debian-devel immediately.
It's not that I hate Debian and I will probably go through the NM process when it has the things I need to get work done.
While I am involved with the Hurd, I do have a great respect for Debian.
<solomon> LoRez: I'm not sure what you mean...
but I'm very thankful for your help ;)
I think people up in the "higher ranks" of debian like Joey really should refrain from such phrases as 'strongly discourage' or at least make clear that they are only pointing out their opinions.
Debian does not have ranks.
<Manoj> it applies to all developers, but most of us do not need it <Manoj> it is like rules that are obvious to most developers
The question is whether Hurd should be Debian compliant.
The goal of the Debian Hurd project is Debian GNU/Hurd. Nothing more, nothing less.
Oh don't worry - they have threatened to change their license to specifically ban Debian from having such a package if one is ever uploaded.
Distributing a prerelease of XFree86 hurts Debian as much as it hurts XFree86.
* Joey leaves screaming <wiggy> Do it quietly please
<ifvoid> elmo: you should set a irc nickname in the developer db <elmo_home> nah, that encourages people to find me
<dotmhp> unlambda ITP <ifvoid> unlambda? What does that do? <dotmhp> makes your brain go foobar if you try to do something in it :) <dotmhp> kinda like intercal
<ifvoid> hmm, it's obfuscated indeed <ifvoid> ```s``s``sii`ki <ifvoid> `k.*``s``s`ks <ifvoid> ``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk <ifvoid> `k``s`ksk <ifvoid> that's actaully a program ;)
<infinity> I prefer guys who are a bit more effeminate. * infinity slides up beside OF.
Tolkien rules, the cabal be damned, and may the force be with you!
Debian GNU/Linux is best suited:
1. Easy upgrade
2. Available on all kinds of architectures
3. Strictly tested, slow release cycles
4. Stable as hell (no experimental gcc/glibc)
5. Can't die - i.e. no company, but an open project
<mgoetze> calc: if i had any rs/6000's, i'd be keeping them all to myself. <mstone> If I still had any rs/6000's I'd be getting rid of them
A number of commercial suitors had flirtations with Debian.
Suddenly, the 600 or so Debian developers scattered around the world had a very large friend in Palo Alto.
Ask any Debian user and he will shake his head in disbelief that you, as a Mandrake user, have to download 2GB of software every 6 months and then run a risky upgrade just to get your system up-to-date. Silly you!
security.debian.org is going to be put behind an IP-over-semaphore gateway.
<Joy> wiggy: Last time I attempted anything, Joey said "you're on
crack, what are you going to do, get away" or so.
<wiggy> never listen to Joey :)
<StevenK> GAR! * StevenK wonders how to the hell to get out of viper mode. <asuffield> StevenK: M-x viper-go-away <asuffield> it said that in the intro message <asuffield> which you blatantly didn't read, fool
<Joy> In the beginning was the word, and the word was content-type: text/plain <Joy> ROTFL! * Joy hugs Joey
As XFree86 package maintainer and author of the Debian X FAQ, I can attest to the truth of this statement.
The sad thing is that Marco Budde is himself a Debian developer.
Agreed. The Importance of Being Debian.
The good work Debian folks are doing on their packages is the real secret for APT's magic.
The magic comes from high quality packages. High quality packages come from Debian policy.
The manpower per package ratio is also much much higher for Debian.
<Beowulf> Sometimes I think Joy and Joey interexchange their nicks.
* wart thinks DDs should feel happy. Imagine how OpenBSD developers feel with Theo being the head :)
<Overfiend> asuffield: ha, ha. I used to data a girl who was half-Japanese. <Overfiend> hmm, you know you're a hopeless geek when you misspell "date" as "data"
<Overfiend> nah, moving to Japan would be depressing <Overfiend> all those fine Japanese women, and they won't let the gaijin touch them
<Crow-> I've also converted half the guys here from mutt to pine, hehe <Crow-> I mean from pine to mutt <Crow-> Oh wait I said it right the first time <doogie_> Crow-: stop drinking
Razor has been known to catch things like Debian security advisories ...
<Md> CRAP! The compose key does not work anymore. Any known workaround?
<liiwi> hnnnnghrmgnyaghmailman-daygrmbl * Kamion shoots the cat wandering over liiwi's keyboard
<dark> I wonder how much of my food I would still be willing to eat
if I really know where it came from and how it was made.
<mihtjel> 8%
<dark> Is that a smiley or a percentage? :)
<mihtjel> percentage ;)
<stockholm-debcon> walters: what time is it?
<walters> stockholm-debcon: it == the first meeting? 3:00pm I think
<walters> stockholm-debcon: you can't be asking me what time it is
right now; you are connected to the internet, after all...
* Joey . o O ( geeks meet RL )
<stockholm-debcon> Joey: i am not really sure what timezone i am in.
* bdale thinks lamont needs to run home and fix his networking... :-) He had so much fun with planes yesterday, he clearly is ready for more!
* dark notes that bored geeks at airports can be dangerous.
<dark> I already found 3 ways to get weapons past Helsinki security.
I wonder if I'll ever try them.
<dark> Hmm, I wonder if there's a word for the practice of
searching fortune files for your own name.
<asuffield> dark: narcissism
<dark> asuffield: *cough* I just want to make sure I'm not misquoted!
<thom> ifvoid: there are ~20 people in here using wireless.
Going through a laptop with wireless and wireful, onto an
IP Matt Taggart grabbed with tcpdump.
Since no mirror carries the Debian DVD images jigdo is the only way to get it.
* edward just installed gbuffy <edward> (mail notifier) <infinity> Dang. <infinity> How disappointing. <Hydroxide> not the GNU Vampire Slayer? <infinity> I was hoping for some sort of Sarah Michelle Gellar thing. :) <thom> infinity: you wanted a vampire slayer on your desktop? <Hydroxide> (female version of gblade I guess) <joeyh> shouldn't gbuffy deal with zombie processes or something? <Hydroxide> ok joey you beat us all :P
<elmo> anyone know how to stop paired ultrasparcs from rebooting
each other into the floor?
<elmo> serial console linked..
<elmo> I thought the "oh dear, my link has gone, time to commit suicide" feature had been turned off in vore, but..
I don't think Debian needs the support headache and political stress associated with market dominance.
But, now Debian has grown up, I do find it difficult sometimes not to feel that I have to fix everything that I think is wrong.
Also announced Debian GNU/Linux 2.2r7 released. In case some of you thought Debian won't be releasing anything this year.
<noel> aj: uh. asking = pestering? <aj> noel: do we have to get into a semantic argument now?
Is this where we invite people to trojan your Debian mirror, and demonstrate gpg's utility for the average Debian user, btw?
* moshez greets pope Joey too.
<jaq> Does anyone know why Matthias Kabel uses -0 for
his first version of a new upstream?
<broonie> He thinks zero based numbering is the One True Path?
<mechanix> jaq: He's a new geek on the block?
<wiggy> I <wiggy> FUCKING <wiggy> HATE <wiggy> LIBC <aj> wiggy: it's the GNU factor <wiggy> no, this is the BenC factor
<bdale> Overfiend: for several years, I drove a 1980 rabbit
that was, erm, slightly modified ...
<infinity> bdale : You cut off the roof and widened the body so you could fit?
* Diziet uses hir casting vote. Oh, the power. <Overfiend> "hir"? <Diziet> Gender-neutral pronoun. <Overfiend> is "Diziet" without specific gender? <Overfiend> right, I know that <asuffield> Diziet: you are gender-neutral now? <asuffield> that must have hurt
<Diziet> I don't think my gender is relevant to Debian :-).
<Fluor> The following NEW packages will be installed: <Fluor> emacs20 libkrb53 <Fluor> wtf! <Fluor> WHO is responsible for installing emacs20 on my computer!
I sense a disturbance in the force As though millions of voices cried out, and ran apt-get.
* Manoj ignores overfiend until he can calm discussion * Overfiend ignores Manoj until he stops engaging in polemics of his own :-P
<Sam> I am actually curious. How would one go about changing what
types of things are accepted in point releases?
<Wichert> Become release manager :)
<wart> Damn it. Where the hell did XChat menubar gone? <Ganneff> wart: vacation
<calc> anyone know what a star means in mutt next to a message? <calc> i accidentally pasted a url into my mutt screen :\
* hosehead just upgraded vorbis-tools, then ran mpg321 -z /scratch/mp3/* and remarked to himself "Wow, they changed ogg123 to look just like mpg123. Neat."
* liw would send lwn money, but is short of cash (two bankrupt employers in a year isn't good)
<Russell> Another thing, I'd like to get SE Linux added in a point release.
<Wichert> And I would like to sky to suddenly turn yellow
since I think that is will look better. :)
The stable distribution is called ``stable'' for a reason and the name was not choosen randomly from a dictionary.
<Overfiend> calc: it's your punishment for daring to mention
certain issues that are supposed to be left undiscussed
<asuffield> Preprocessing /home/aps100/dancer-1.1/include/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer /dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/dancer/da ncer/dancer/fdbuffer.h... <asuffield> doxygen: FUCK YOU
<doogie> asuffield: is that java? <asuffield> .h is not a traditional extension for a java file :P
* asuffield notes that command.com and cmd.exe both have
really broken quoting and escaping rules
<asuffield> the Perl debugger makes a better shell than those two
In a world of NDA-bound business agreements, Debian is an open book. In a world of mission statements, Debian has a social contract. At a time when commercial distributors are striving to see how much proprietary software they can pack into a box of Linux, Debian remains the bastion of software freedom--living proof that you can have a fully functional and usable operating system without needing any proprietary code. --Evan Leibovitch, ZDNet
Good lord man, were you on debian-user and #debian over the last 1.5 years? Vast, vast confusion.
<elmo> I broke melanie, the poor dear.. so the removals have been backing up <doogie> elmo: so it's your fault the archive has been growing without bounds?
<Tomasera> my theory of openssh 3.4p1 as a world-wide
backdoor for world domination is confirmed
<Joey> I sense disturbance in the security buildd infrastructure.
After one gets beyond the rough and spare surface, the structure of the Debian distribution is clear and open, and one feels such a sense of relief and freedom, to at last be able to learn and improve with ease as much as one wants.
The way Debian gets tested is by having people use it to do stuff.
The reason I haven't is that I don't have arbitrarily large amounts of time to devote to Debian; please stop wasting the time that I do have. Go away. Stop waving your banner and trying to lead a charge until you have some actual idea where we need to go.
<elmo> Md: I wouldn't, personally <two-face> elmo: you wouldn't what? <elmo> two-face: ``fix'' a package
<two-face> elmo: you don't like the Hurd huh? <elmo> two-face: err, no, I don't like fuckwittery
<elmo> oh, woops.. that was a "funky command", I could
have saved redundancy and supported edge systems
by using grep -c.. silly me.. </bitter>
<dark> Overfiend: You're assuming heterosexuality :)
<Overfiend> it's a safe assumption; I'll be right more often than not :)
<Robot101> don't look at me.
<Robot101> :P
<Overfiend> yeah, let's not look at Robot101 when discussing
heterosexuality; it might make him uncomfortable
<Mithrandir> Joey: that's software. Software doesn't count. ;) <liiwi> Software can be fixed <Mithrandir> users can be shot. <Mithrandir> (but not over IP, unfortunately)
<dark> I wonder which is worse, quoting yourself in
a signature, or quoting yourself on IRC :-)
* moshez notices the viking attack on Debian -- lots of people from Norway and Sweden seem to get into making localized versions.
Do you read debian-devel, debian-legal, or Debian Weekly News? You might interested to learn that most "schweet" TrueType fonts are non-free.
<Omnic_> oh christ.... how many archive scanners do we have now? <aj> too many <aj> Omnic_: this is why stevenk must forge the one script: one script to rule them all...
* aj sighs, and realises that potato isn't stable anymore and reruns his damn script again
<willy> Is it just me who gets dozens of annoying suggestions that I've
changed conffiles which, frankly, I've never heard of on upgrade?
<dark> It's not just you. It's one of the great mysteries of the Debian organism :)
<neuro> Joey: well, that one was relatively painless :) <Joey> Yes, want a bigger sucker?
* zanaga ponders, which libdb should i build libnss-ldap against.. <Joey> Throw the three-sided coin from Joy * zanaga jumps up and down.. it supports 2 and 3/4.. libdb3, I choose you *while throwing a deb-package*
<thom> conflict of interest if he's involved with an umbrella org
that hosts freenode or wtf opn is this week, and one that is
involved with OFTC
<Joey> thom: fundraise.net :)
*** wiggy has changed the topic on channel #debian-devel to lilo: No such nick/channel
<ElectricElf> Wondering if we shouldn't ditch it. <ElectricElf> That's the box that the police are after.
<elmo> drow: I need your l33t sk1ll2 d00d
<elmo> drow: can you kick some sense into your fellow gcc developers?
If I see anymore of this mad "NMU the world!!!" plan from
normally-sensible-people-like-doko, I'm going to lose it.
<moshez> Another day, another security advisory :(
I would like to see irc.debian.org moving to a IRC network without this daily requests for money/spam.
Debian's cabal, by contrast, numbers in the single digits, and has members who go dormant from time to time to further obscure their true numbers and identities.
Well, shame on them for having bugs in their software. GCC just isn't up to Debian standards, I guess.
<Joy> they don't have but two files :)
<Joy> and now they have one
<Joy> and they call that a translation...
more like source of disappointment for esperanto users
* Joy , in true X-Files spirit, denies everything <Joy> and if not, THEY MADE ME DO IT!!
<Manoj> oh, we know you are not raul. But is raul you?
<Culus> Make no mistake, Debian has enemies that would
stop at nothing to destroy us
<Culus> The cabal fights secret battles daily to hide this
from the average developer, a world of evil that would
corrupt them if they ever learned of it
<mihtjel> none of my configuration-files will ever be more than 2 gigs
<Manoj> I guess I am not sane
<willy> Joy: turns out the skiddies don't bother including
ancient attacks in their toolboxes
<willy> so someone running sendmail 4.x is probably quite safe
I must drink more coffee in the future before posting to debian-private in the early morning. It's a good thing I do my serious work in the evening.
<ds> wait, sorry. I thought you _filed_ the bug. I need more coffee
<Robot101> the whole set up is deeply frightening <Robot101> there's such a thing as being too configurable...
<mihtjel> why was vim's priority changed? <mhp> wiggy saw the light and switched to Emacs? :)
<Joy> dupload: could allow fetching orig tarball directly from upstream <Joy> oh for christ sake, what kind of ideas are these <Joy> it oughta cook coffee, too, yes?
<Alfie> Just a quick question: My #158434 did never hit debian-devel, did it? <Alfie> I thought I have set the pseudo-header correct but somehow that got lost :( <Alfie> AARRGHH! I see the problem: X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@bugs.debian.org * Alfie hangs himself :/
<elmo> BlindMan: is debussy stable? <elmo> (as in, non-crashing, not the distribution)
* bdale debated broadcasting requests for donations on OPN channels to pay for a plane ticket to meet Raul and sign his key one afternoon, then decided it would just pour fuel on the flames... :-)
Even Debian, the slowest-releasing of the distributions, has this code.
<doogie_> and be sure to keep in mind how low-end murphy is now-a-days
<doogie_> I can understand if other software wouldn't be able to perform
on such hardware. but don't expect that just throwing a quad p4 with
16 gigs of ram will be accepted to make up for poor software performance.
<Oskuro> Joy: I'm getting pulses, but the rsync module is gone?
<two-face> TV? what's this? <weasel> the holo deck of the 20th century
<weasel> ElectricElf: then there was Joey, but he does not count
<Joey> Hmm... when I start typing #debian-joey instead of #debian-devel,
I wonder if it is time to leave the box alone.
* Joy would join #debian-joey in a minute, if anything,
to cause confusion with his nickname :)
Actually, building rpms on a Debian box is useful. It means you can distribute to silly redhat users without needing to be one.
The GNOME Project's 2.0 release could be compared to Debian's 3.0 release -- a hard slog, a huge leap in quality and technology, a brilliant foundation for future releases, and a fresh perspective on the importance of the release process in large Free Software projects.
*** Joy (joy@pork.gkvk.hr) has joined channel #debian-devel <doogie__> ah, there's someone I can blame
Debian mob doesn't care for names on Debian lists.
<Oskuro> 65591:jordi@nubol:~$ reportbug kamion <Oskuro> Getting status for kamion... <Oskuro> no, no.. <Oskuro> this is what happens when you don't sleep
<ElectricElf> weasel: Don't be a twit. :) <weasel> but I'm so good at it :)
* Kamion throws a lead-bound copy of RFC2616 at doogie, just to see how much it hurts
<doogie> Can we ban Overfiend from this channel for being an idiot?
<Overfiend> Joey ridiculed me with his reply and the eventual MOTD
<Overfiend> neuro was wrong again <neuro> Yes, I'm always wrong, the grand Overfiend is always right.
<doogie> By cc'ing -project, you were already assuming
that -admin would ignore your request.
I am willing to resign myself to the possibility of a Debian system administration team so drunk on its own hyper-emotionalism regarding developers that they willing suspend objectivity for the euphoria of stoking a personal animus.
<bagpuss> Overfiend: I think you fail to credit people
with the intelligence they deserve
<Overfiend> Keith Packard is committing more masturbation fodder to XFree86 head
<Mithrandir> two-face: no, that problem isn't related to software at all
-- if you are helping somebody, they want more help.
The issue is that Debian needs to be sure that our users have certain freedoms, even if we think it would be foolish to exercise them, and even if we have no intention of exercising them ourselves.
If the entire TeX community is going to rise up and call Debian a bunch of degenerates for saying that something that's been placed in the public domain is in the public domain, then maybe Debian doesn't need TeX or its community.
<Mithrandir> I know, it was on my todo list. Your answer was fine. <Mithrandir> I need to stop sleeping or something.. The day has too few hours.
Hi Sweetie, will you be holding a copy of the latest Debian woody?
<Joey> Where's the .changes file I wanted to amber in? <Joey> Hmm, ist's in the db. <Joey> *ponder* <Joey> Did I actually amber it in already? <Joey> Damn, I'm getting senile...
Okay, here's a problem: debian-installer doesn't remotely work on anything but i386. You're hereby delegated to fix that.
Just because you want to change something doesn't mean Debian is the place to do it.
<Joy> Joey just hides behind the image of a reactionary;
deep down, he's a revolutionary ;)
<Overfiend> vi-mode is terrible for a shell prompt <Clint> some people love it <Overfiend> vi is a VISUAL editor <Overfiend> that means FULL-SCREEN <Overfiend> that means YOU CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING <Overfiend> and you can TELL WHAT MODE YOU'RE IN <Overfiend> well, if you cheat and use vim with ":set showmode", that is ;-)
<elmo> If I reply to private emails, it gets forwarded or taken
out of context; if I post to lists, it gets misinterpreted.
Debian seems to have a booth, and I remember I volunteered to be there.
* Rename template.ru to template.ru
<shaleh> StevenK: where's that working lintian replacement so I do not
have to deal with this crappy perl?
<Joy> oh oh oh!
<Joy> shaleh: give lintian to me :)
<Joy> you can have linda all you want :)
<shaleh> Joy: I was hoping that after 6+ months of leaving it alone
someone would offer
<Joy> Mithrandir: you don't think a girl took over mihtjel? :)
<Overfiend> hungry for the nuclear fireball to consume you, eh?
If I create my own GUI how would I make it work with the Linux Kernel?
<Overfiend> Joey: heh, you have high expectations <Overfiend> "the driver was created tonight" "How do I get X working?" :) <Joey> heh :-) <Joey> Hey X is working already
<Overfiend> Joey: okay, spill it. What the hell kind of machine is this?
I need the client Oracle 8.1.6 for Debian pa-risc. Try asking Oracle for it.
<Overfiend> * Updated man(7) with regard to groff_mwww(7) (closes: Bug#63311)
<Overfiend> * Yeah. Whatever. Did something. Didn't do something
else. (Closes: Bug#63311)
<Overfiend> poor Joey, he has Collins' Syndrome
<Joy> you want GROFF_DEBUG=reallyreallybitchy <Overfiend> "I SEE UNESCAPED HYPHENS!"
<joeyh> I love it. One of the things keeping Perl out of testing
is PostgreSQL, which fails to build due to the Python mess.
<willy> strncpy Considered Harmful <willy> read the manpage, consider the implications carefully, then run screaming
<Joy> aargh
* Joy slaughters tbm
<Joy> tbm: do not, i repeat, do NOT change markup when
changing content of .wml files
<wiggy> elmo: oh, I'm not online right now so if things break I can't help
If it's available in Debian, it just works.
Hey, like everbody else, I only subscribe to debian-devel for the endless flame-wars, public displays of animosity between over-sensitive ego-trippers, personal attacks, and general rudeness shown in public exchanges.
* mdz reads SGI's security advisory about "X Windows" <mdz> it's a hopeless struggle
<rcw> advice to insomniacs: autoconf macro references can be coma-inducing
* michaelw idly wonders why rox is not in Debian... <Belbo> michaelw: Because Debian doesn't rock, Debian rules.
You treat your users and developers like dirt, telling them that working on improving Debian is a privilege.
<mihtjel> wtf is X using 1 _gig_ of RAM? <mihtjel> 24764 root 5 -10 1121M 119M 11228 S < 16.3 31.6 2229m XFree86
Its okay, I've discovered the black magic of apt-src and it is now building :) Damn do I love Debian.
<doogie> think about it; if I get this done, I could add *real* OO to shell
<Oskuro> Purge 2645 deleted messages? ([yes]/no): <weasel> Oskuro: NO! <weasel> Oskuro: deleting mail is like burning books
<mihtjel> weasel: Good idea, Mr. Palfrader <Joy> and we'll call Joey -- Herr Schulze
What a great idea! Discussing politics or philosophy on debian-DEVEL.
+ unsigned int mbslen = ::wcstombs(toFill, wideCharBuf, maxBytes); + if (mbslen == -1)
Speaking as a free software developer and a member of the Debian Project, it would definitely be much better if you could guarantee that people distributing your source tarball wouldn't be sued for patent infringement by Unisys for doing so.
I'm sorry you regard Debian's concerns over patent infringement claims as a personal affront to you. They are not intended as such.
<dopey> StevenK: you sleeping tonight? <StevenK> Soon. <StevenK> When I'm happy with alsa. <StevenK> Wait, I won't be sleeping until 2006, then.
I get so many weird never duplicated reports from linux from scratch people that don't happen to anyone else that I treat them with deep suspicion. Especially because it sometimes goes away if they instead build the same kernel with Debian/Red Hat/.. binutils/gcc
I get bugs that are clearly caused by miscompiled tool chains from Linux from scratch people. I trust the RH, SuSE and Debian tool chains because they have any neccessary patches applied for compiler bugs and they are running against a properly built glibc and binutils.
Yeah, use kguiconfig for alternatives on debian and let everyone just directly call $RANDOMONFIGPROGGI :)
* Manoj adds Joey to the list of people he is afraid of disagreeing with in public
<stockholm> Manoj: Joey is one of the persons whose online
personality does not match the physical appearance.
<Manoj> Is he even more scary in person?
You keep saying it's *you* working on it. If it's for Debian at large, then we *all* should work on it.
<weasel> Learn about a new Debian package every day. <weasel> A series brought to you by your friendly Debian Security Team.
<stockholm> Who is in the debian-old-boys-network? <wiggy> There is no network! <wiggy> And I did not say that!
<wiggy> JHM obviously isn't keeping track of things <JHM> wiggy is obviously being his usual smartass self again.
It is worth noting that DEC was a US corporation, and remains US-owned. I also note from Kevin's site that he lives in the USA. Finally, Debian's main sites are located in the USA. The Database Directive of the EU, therefore, does not have the impact that, for example, the USA crypto laws have.
Debian-insatller is completely independent and _people need to finish it instead of complaining about the release cycle_.
Yes, this is another problem. Debian policy, Debian legal, boot-floppies and whatever there is more on important decision making mailing lists are not transparent to the debian developer who cant follow all of them. Thanks to Joey this will not be the case anymore.
Jobs at Debian are *really* nice. I don't know of any other US company that allows its staff to take such long vacations.
Removing packages from the Debian archive doesn't remove them from people's systems.
> ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/8.1/COPYRIGHT.yast This license made me install Debian.
Thanks to a friend very familiar with Debian I have my first Debian server up and running on a Dual Processor IBM Netfinity Server. One word: ROCKS!
Apparently we have quite a resilient infrastructure, if a total server annihilation only takes us off-line for as long as it takes to restore from backups -- kudos to all the debian-admin team for that.
<Overfiend> Joey: hah, I know you have a sense of humor <Overfiend> you just try to hide it <Overfiend> I know about http://www.infodrom.org/Infodrom/fortunes/
The number of morons using Debian has noticably decreased since Gentoo came on the scene; they now have something that will give them the stupid things they asked for, so they stop asking us for them.
Fortunately, most of the Debian members are isolated physically from others.
The cabal members are those who know the source code of the core software of Debian (dpkg, apt, libc, dak, debbugs, the voting machine, and so on).
Working code is a lethal weapon. Fire it on debian-devel. Your code may fail to get into the next release, but at least you can win the flamewar.
[ Hm, I guess you are not talking about yourself: from outside it looks like you are still doing more for Debian than I do for my day job ;-) ]
<Joy> Joey: how come you did those CAN ID additions one by one? :) <Joy> sounds painful
One really important role Debian fulfills that makes it somewhat different from other open source projects is that of a place to ramp up and get involved, even if you're not an expert C hacker.
If Debian happens to need an supreme and feared emperor-for-life, I'd be happy to volunteer. I want minions as part of the deal, though.
Hardly everybody has got a full Debian mirror in the same rack.
Debian wont package most of the non-free software.
<vamp_work> some guy named Debian hacked my box and made it unstable <vamp_work> it tells me every time I log in
<ifvoid> > Tags were: wontfix upstream <ifvoid> > Tags added: pending <ifvoid> lol <weasel> *g* <weasel> never give up hope :)
I use a distribution called Debian. What really sold me on it was its phenomenal bug database.
Why the hell is my PC almost twice as fast at running the same apps under Debian as it was under Red Hat 7.* or 8.0?
<weasel> <164052-done@lists.debian.org>: User unknown * weasel kicks himself
*** THIS THING WILL CAUSE SOME GTK APPLICATIONS TO FREAK OUT *** *** THIS THING WILL CAUSE FONTS IN SOME GTK APPS TO BE UNREADABLE *** *** THIS THING MIGHT EVEN CRASH YOUR X SERVER IF IT GETS CONFUSED *** *** THIS THING WONT WORK WITH GTK 2.0 ***
It's quite the most foul thing I've seen in my life. It looks like it's composed entirely of bollocks.
This form of brinkmanship appears to be completly unique to Debian.
As for you leaving Debian... Why do people always bring that out? Jeeze.
Stating that you'll "leave Debian" isn't necessary, it only serves to provide fodder for a flamewar.
I know it will shock you, but you know that there is a world outside of Debian?
At the moment Debian is almost hopeless because it is so outdated as a desktop OS.
<Oskuro> 67 D Jan 23 Lonely women ( 33) Im alone, take me now <Oskuro> Ooohoooh! What a LUCKY DAY!
<Kamion> aagh, I have no brain. * Kamion uploads again, signed this time dammit - #debian-devel
<Robot101> let me clarify <Robot101> FUCK! FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!
<cmos> because slackware attracts dickheads like RH5 attracts idiots <fretless> like debian attracts egomaniacs
Among major Linux distributions, Debian is the closest to a pure expression of the ideals and processes that make Linux special.
The exciting thing to me, actually, is that there are so many ways in which Debian can be made even better. That makes Debian's future very bright, indeed!"
* tbm adds weasel to his mutt aliases so he can bother him more easily * weasel adds tbm to his procmail <tbm> hey, that's a honor; only kamion and mhp are there <weasel> well, the real honor would be a weasel-hook * weasel has a joey-hook in his muttrc <tbm> only my ex-gf had a send-hook
<Christian> bignachos: the famous pornview maintainer? <HoserHead> Christian: *don't* ask why he's typing so slowly <bignachos> hey, at least I thoroughly test my packages
<Sir_Ahzz_> Did I mention I found a good php programmer to hire finaly? <eigood> There's no such thing.
> IT?????????? I'm an it? > mhp: *peng* <mhp> Joey: you are not, your dead body is <azeem> Joey: well, your fault when you let yourself look like a robot working 24/7
<tbm> elmo: -fg green? <mdz> green on black...you really are old
Before doing so and giving up any hope that I can't educate a 16 year old non-programmer to work with a programmer, I can only turn to debian-devel to ask around if anyone can teach a new maintainer to listen what seems to be optimal to make his package perfect.
<Oskuro> woo, I suck <Oskuro> more StevenK
Debian is also very user-oriented. It's just that Debian's users tend to have different needs than Mandrake's.
Redhat has a limited resource of developers themselves, they cannot offer the same amount of packages like Debian do.
I haven't been rude by Debian standards. In fact I question whether I've been rude by any reasonable standard.
Bang! He puts a poison pill in the package, cleverly hidden and designed to pass the maintainer checks, and tries to bring in angry users to pressure Debian.
Are we out to send the message that the Debian project feels denial of service poison pills are funny?
We are discussing an issue important to Debian security, and what users may expect from the project, and how to handle an incident. If you do not care to participate in discussions relevant to development of the distrivution, please unsubscribe now.
He acted childishly and irresponsibly. He has not indicated that the code that he writes should be trusted by the Debian project. That is all.
I think the proper analogy would be "This man spraypainted 'Debian sux0rz' all over our front yard; maybe we shouldn't invite him to our next party."
Good God!! You find people making software unusable to Debian users a ``tasty cookie''?
Rüdiger does NOT have a right to see his program in Debian -- no one has that right.
Rüdiger effectively showed that an upstream author can sneak code past the Debian maintainer.
If upstream is intentionally malicious to Debian users, and we know so, it would be irresponsible subject our users to their code.
This is under no circumstances acceptable behaviour from upstream. Drop mICQ from Debian.
The upstream does not want their software to work optimally in Debian, if they did then they would not trojan it.
I can't believe people are defending the act of slipping obfuscated code into a program designed to not be seen by the maintainer and to make Debian look stupid.
I don't agree with you. A Debian package is a Debian package.
Just because an upstream has allowed anyone to package his software (that's the requirement, not that Debian be allowed to package his software) doesn't mean that it has to be in Debian. That's a privilege, not a right.
How can I as user trust the Debian Project if it tells the Upstream guilty but does not solve the issue in its own Package-Pool?
We have no proof that this imaginary "Debian Project" of yours has been willfully distributing software that prevents users from using it.
<srbaker> frozen-bubble slow as fuck <srbaker> who's fuckign idea was it to write a game in perl?
Debian is hurting itself by some of its members not being able to take back their egos, taking out their emotions of the discussion and keeping the discussion cool only related to facts.
No matter what your Debian feelings and experiences are like, there is no doubt that the Debian project has made an enormous impact on the history of modern software development.
<Bluehorn> Robot101: Actually I lost a few source packages. <Bluehorn> Robot101: Had to re-download them from a Debian mirror. <Robot101> real men don't need backups =) * Bluehorn packages bluehorn-university-stuff and uploads ;)
While most reviews tend to focus on the installation and initial impressions of various distributions, I thought it might be of interest for readers to hear about the past couple of months dabbling in the meta-distribution known as Debian.
Debian has to do peer-review of the code that distributes.
Debian-installer is still able to install Debian, so that hasn't changed.
Debian is a bit like BGP (or even IP networking).
Currently, I can only recommend Debian privately because the baptism of fire is still to happen.
Debian is a bit like BGP (or even IP networking). By using it, you trust much more people you would like to, but nevertheless you rely on it for critical business operations.
<Oskuro> ffs <Oskuro> this guy is touching my balls again <thom> he's doing *WHAT*?
Debian is a night club, filled with beautiful people.
Debian is a free distribution which is mostly written for free. If people want to write something for free then it'll get done. If people don't then it won't.
Debian is the Jedi operating system: "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice".
<ifvoid_> we could set up the bts on ramdisk ;) <eigood> for what gain? <weasel> we would be BugFree[TM] regularily
*** Topic for #debian-devel: You know the world is going crazy when the
best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, France
is accusing the US of arrogance and Germany doesn't want to go to war.
<Alfie> Shall I try to get my hands layed on an IE, too?
Just to make sure the problem isn't on my part?
<azeem> wow, using IE to confirm a bug
<azeem> Alfie is desperate :)
* willy reports that the fsck on his laptop from unstable
wishes to fsck /dev/fd0 even when asked to fsck /dev/hda5
<willy> As you may be able to imagine, i'm not exactly in the best
possible situation to see if this bug has been reported
and/or resolved right now ...
<willy> well, you can always use the whiskey to clean your bathroom ... <Kamion> willy: eat shit. :)
I'm not sure I agree that Gentoo and Debian are competing projects, but you're right, we do share a common goal in relation to the Hurd.
Policy says that all binaries "should" be stripped. Indeed all binaries on my system are stripped except /usr/bin/pornview.
<Kamion> infinity: I feel dirty any time I touch PHP. <infinity> How do you think I feel?
<infinity> I'd orphan it, but I use it, and I don't
want it even more poorly maintained than I do.
<wiggy> elmo: Isn't that the libtool approach? <elmo> wiggy: I don't know to be honest, I try to stay away from libtool
*** tbm (tbm@203.28.240.13) is now known as sleep *** sleep (tbm@203.28.240.13) is now known as tbm <Mithrandir> that was a short nap <tbm> blah, I obviously need sleep. ;) <tbm> I typed /nick instead of /away
<Joy> debsign -give-it-up -for -kriss-kross@debian.org <Joy> debsign encourages retro rap, someone should file a bug.
<JHM> The sooner we can drop gal, the better IMHO. <Joy> i propose we rename libgal to libbitch
<mstone> .c++ is better, if still not as good as cc <willy> some filesystems don't like + in filenames <mstone> watch me care <mstone> those filesystems suck :)
<mstone> well, dos is dead, vms is dead, why bother? <willy> VMS is, alas, decidedly not dead <mstone> willy: since hp bought it, it is
<Alfie> Hey, cool! 36 RC-bugs fewer than last week. <Alfie> Still 707 to go, though.
Folks, if you don't stop abusing debconf with useless notes that belong in README.Debian and config file overwriting, I will stop maintaining it.
I think it would be stretching the truth to say that Debian, as a project, has any "sense of free software in general" that could back such kind of official approval.
<Beowulf> Debian mail is working properly, isn't it? * Beowulf has not received any Debian mail in more than 8 hours
There is no real difference between Suse, RedHat, Debian, Mandrake, SCO (besides spiritual aspects). They all are very, very complicated to J. S.
I have a number of Infomagic CD sets here, and all of them have their Debian distribution botched. Every time in a new and different way, too. It was amazing. The 1.0 thing was just a particularly vigorous occasion.
Debian is based on technical stuff not on a feeling for acceptance.
<fabbione> who is the main responsable for DDTP? <fabbione> grisu? <broonie> yes <StevenK> fabbione: He Who Can Not Be Understood
We already have a soapbox -- debian-announce@lists.debian.org and www.debian.org. We don't need to tie our opinions to technical documentation to have them heard.
<tbm> weasel: you wil die!!!!!1 <weasel> tbm: what did you do this time that you're going to blame on me <tbm> weasel: you polluted my gpg key sign coord page code with tabs!
<fabbione> just to laugh we should add a new queue to the NM process..
<fabbione> the time that Joey takes to sign a key
against the time elmo takes to make a new DD
<fabbione> they start to compete :-)
<algernon> why do people like lesbians? <Joy> two words: four breasts <algernon> bi girls are sooooooo much better...
I have spent too much time working for this project to calmly sit idly by, playing my lyre, while Debian burns in the background.
<Oskuro> lol <Oskuro> Someone from my university filed a bug report on ALSA <Oskuro> from Physics, too <dopey> that makes it easier to hunt them down <Oskuro> yes <Oskuro> On monday I will make sure he never submits another one.
Which I do not care about. (Or is Solaris 9 now a released Debian architecture?)
Given your track record, responsible behaviour from you is likely to be never to post on a Debian mailing list. Ever.
Well, I find it impolite to say work that has been done by a volunteer is "silly". Actually, I find it discouraging to do any more future work for Debian
Is there a Debian patch that can be applied to hats, shirts, backpacks?
If you thought you needed to be an official maintainer to contribute to Debian in any meaningful way, I hope you will reconsider. That's simply not the case, and I can attest to it through personal experience.
Getting mplayer in to Debian is more a political problem than anything, as both groups have managed to totally alienate each other fairly recently.
Which part of "debian-curiosa" did you read as "debian-mailbombing-request"?
-- Anthony DeRobertis
How many image gallery programs do we really need in debian?
To use GNOME 1 in Debian 3.0 was the right decision since slightly outdated stable software is usually better than bleeding-edge buggy software.
The Debian installer is an exception, it really needs to be ready.
The Debian Project is an organic system, not a perfectable apparatus.
The Debian project has no interest in the profit margins of publishers of "free" manuals. This "goal" is not a concern of ours.
<Kamion> Alfie: your CA bot claims to be weasel
<Alfie> I don't have any CA bot?
<Alfie> Maybe he claims to be weasel because it _is_
weasel who made the mistake, not me?
I think it's a wonderful idea to have a decss package in Debian. If Debian cannot distribute the decss that allows Debian users to view DVD movies (yet), then distributing this one is a good alternative, I'd say.
Why the hell should this be packaged for Debian?
<Kamion> we do say here that Americans don't get irony ;) * eigood larts kamion * Kamion attempts to offend as much of the channel as possible <eigood> Kamion: america doesn't exist, you brit <eigood> I'm a US citizen <Kamion> and I'm not a Brit, so :)
It's not acceptable to have a release without an installer.
It is, in fact, utterly unthinkable.
"Hi, I hear Debian just did a release! Congrats!"
"Hey, thanks!"
"So, I've got a new laptop here, got a CD I can use to install it?"
"No."
Debian can't please everyone, any more than other projects can. That is why there are choices.
Debian is dying. Linux is dying. The end of the world is nigh.
Debian is but a shadow of what it could be.
TBH, that's a lousy reason to join Debian. Send a cheque or something.
No sooner do we get support for NEWS.Debian files than they start being abused, just like the debconf note templates that inspired NEWS.Debian support in the first place.
<Joey> HEAD http://ftp.gnu.org/ <Joey> Server: Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux mod_python/2.7.8 Python/2.1.3 <wiggy> mod_python? <wiggy> I'm surprised they haven't invented mod_guile or mod_emacs
It is funny to see that the first message about Debian contains the word flamewar on it. That means we where cursed from the beginning?
This text, and the huge mess of pointless and low-quality bugs he has inflicted on Debian, in my opinion justify dumping his bug reports in the future.
Debian's release cycle is too fast.
Who knows where RedHat is going? Debian is going nowhere, or at least they are moving very slowly.
Debian isn't OpenBSD, but I think most would agree that OpenBSD has a good understanding of the problem.
Debian has been an amateur effort throughout its lifetime, and its success is a testament to how little difference money sometimes makes.
I have a question. Why should Debian put PaX into the kernel when the kernel developers haven't put PaX in the kernel?
<tbm> He was trying to help, you know. <Joy> Yes, I suck. sue me.
Roland sweared a lot when installing Debian. Like "I wrote a fucking third of the OS and can't install it".
If bigger is better, then Debian wins hands down.
<fabbione> Bah, today my english sucks more than usual. <fabbione> Anyway, I guess you got my point.
Having packages for software in Debian that no one uses is a waste of resources.
There are two ways to install Debian: The easy way and the easier way.
In a nutshell, I was told that Debian's installation was not difficult by intention, but rather by neglect.
Debian is not in the habit of editing its history.
Even if Debian decides not to use GNU manuals, some kinds of cooperation should still be possible, as long as we are civil to each other.
The problem, amazingly enough, is that he did google for "dueling banjos sheet music", and Debian is the number one and number two hit!
Neither Debian nor FSF horse-trade their ethos in the interest of their relationship.
I think we (Debian) would be nuts of deprive ourselves of Branden's experience with licensing issues, and this issue in particular.
Debian doesn't waste its time with a wimpy graphical installation program - in the Unix tradition, it goes right for the jugular with good old-fashioned text-mode.
Even loyal Debianeers are reluctant to recommend their favorite distro to newbies.
The people who want Debian to distribute for the MIPS architecture need to put up or shut up.
So you're maintaining a kernel patch for Debian that has severe security implication but you don't know enough about it and the code it touches to do some forward porting?
People google, Google points them to Debian to get this sheet music, and the act of asking reinforces Google's notion that Debian is a good place to get the music!
Although many hardcore geeks swear by Debian, the majority still swears at it.
Debian policy sets the policy for Debian packages, not for upstream.
<z80a> Is there a reason why bind 9 (woody version) tries
to contact itself through IP 127.0.0.2?
<Robot101> It's lonely.
Kernel developers dont use the Debian source package as a base for their work.
<two-face> stockholm: I think your question got lost :) <stockholm#debian-devel> two-face: dont bother, the joke is dead...
* JHM patiently awaits a new dose of Marillat's excellent bug handling and social skills.
<Kamion> Who was it who wondered if the BTS was going to run
into LFS problems with its caught-spam folders?
<Kamion> Whoever it was, you were right.
Perhaps we should suggest Debian as a better base than Red Hat?
I'm not sure that "operating system" is a good way to describe Debian these days.
<Oskuro> In svn, does the Attic work the same as in CVS? <CosmicRay> There is no Attic in svn
Debian is very cool, because it is user supported and user developed.
<vorlon> I guess we'll have to petition for TLD .gnu, so we
can properly call the site ftp.gnu/linux.hr?
Perhaps the landslide just means people don't want to loudly proclaim Debian's support of non-free software anymore?
Debian's ideology has always been that pragmatism is more important than ideology.
I've read the post regarding grsecurity and Debian, and I must say that I've never seen a bigger bunch of lazy whiners in my life.
Debian is not a company, we can't put someone in charge, we rely on volunteers.
Debian is *wonderful* for kernel development, but I wouldn't touch Herbert's kernels with a ten-feet pole.
The Debian social contract specifies that we will not hide problems. The project is based on free and open discussion.
No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder on debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails per day from the new fodder just aren't enough!
I finally convinced a sysadmin friend of mine that Debian was the way and the light.
I used to think that the worst offender in breaking working applications was Debian.
Surely you are not saying that I need to buy a bigger house in order to remain a Debian developer?
Oh, wow, wonderful comment on debian-boot. Somebody was drunk while testing the installer, and the automatic CD-ROM eject knocked his coffee cup and spilled coffee all over his clothes.
Because, of course, a malicious buildd admin or member of the Debian Security Team is a flat impossibility, as is compromise of a buildd box.
<doogie> Sir_Ahzz: You left a Debian CD in master <Sir_Ahzz> You can keep it. :)
Should Debian users be expected to forward their bug reports upstream instead of filing Debian bug reports?
God I hate closed lists. I see why outsiders hate debian-private at times like this.
<etbe> When will we be able to upload packages to Debian again? <weasel> after sarge released. This is a kind of a sneak freeze.
Running a buildd for Debian requires more knowledge than just booting a machine, doing an install, pointing wanna-build at auric and crossing your fingers.
And if we hadn't had perl 5.8.1 in unstable, then we would never have spotted its binary incompatibility with 5.8.0. Upstream released 5.8.2 precisely because the problem had been discovered in Debian unstable.
<stockholm> tbm is visiting people in Australia. <doogie> What kind of people? <doogie> Austrialia is full of criminals.
Submitting upstream bugs to Debian BTS only slows down the packaging work by requiring the maintainer to act as a go between on the bug.
<Joy> it was mildly amusing to see yoj and yoej in lastlog :) <Joy> YOU'RE POLLUTING MY NAMESPACE EVEN WHEN WE'RE UPSIDE DOWN
As long as no-one is interested in making kernel-patch packages for PaX the chances of getting it in the default Debian kernel source is exceedingly low.
<wiggy> why use %7E isntead of ~ ? <Manoj> wiggy: I am, umm, old fashioned
Maybe they'd prefer Debian GNU/KLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJNetBSD most of all. One can't get too far away from those pinkos in Boston!
If you want to cooperate with Debian developers then you have to find some area of mutual interest.
<joshk> Would you guys say that being involved in open source
development helped get you into college?
<Oskuro> joshk: No.
<Joey> No.
<joey> It's rather the other way round...
<Joey> It keeps me from leaving the university.
<Hydroxide> Is any listmaster there? <doogie> probably. <doogie> You really should ask if one is alive. <Hydroxide> true <Hydroxide> Is one alive? <doogie> They are all alive. <doogie> You should better ask is one awake. <Hydroxide> Stop leading me on :) here's a better question: <Hydroxide> Is any listmaster paying attention to this channel?
<jbailey> I have a dream that one day Ulrich Drepper and
Linus Torvalds go into a room, and only one comes
out. Then maybe glibc would be easier to work with.
Congratulations on not subscribing to debian-security-announce.
Are the people using the Debian infrastructure to support non-free helping to prevent the problems from being solved?
Due to that fact, we should rename Sid to Buzz. Since that name had already been used for Debian 1.1, this would give the term "release cycle" a really interesting conotation.
Debian already sucks.
Debian must be equally Free for all.
Debian does not have a monopoly on trust.
It is also cool to see people coming to Debian because of practicality, and then discovering this cool libré software thing.
This is confusing. non-free is not in Debian, so it cannot be removed from it.
My impression is that a lot of the recent Red Hat moves (charging for updates, Fedora) are driving away a lot of customers and that's resulting in a real spike in Debian interest.
Please stop replying to spam, at least on debian-devel. Spam is best left in ignored single-message threads.
A Debian email address means you have a Debian email address. Nothing more, nothing less.
For the record, roughly 1-2% of the spam sent to a Debian mailing list actually makes it through to the list.
My subscription seems to have been accidentally changed from debian-devel to debian-nm-buildd-flamewars, is something wrong with murphy?
Funny, this thread started with claims being made about people who spend almost all of their free time to Debian, which should be replaced, as if their contributions weren't considered useful.
* Joy sees what wiggy sees <Joy> and it's not "Being Wichert Akkerman"
We have had sex in Debian for many years now.
Whoa, Matrix flashback... "It seems that you've been living two lives. One life, you're James Troup, systems administrator for a respectable Linux distribution. You have a @debian.org e-mail address, write hairy katie scripts, and you ... help developers upload their garbage. The other life is lived in IRC, where you go by the hacker alias "elmo" and are guilty of virtually every crime against buildd admins and new maintainers we can flame you for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not." (With apologies to the Wachowski brothers, Hugo Weaving, James, and anyone else who needs to be apologised to).
I think we all agree we want to see more women involved in or using Debian.
Should we point irc.debian.org at a service that is out of control?
The bullying that goes on in Debian is off-putting to a much greater percentage of women than men, and we must fix it if we want to increase the number of women who want to participate.
I've always wondered why so many threads in Debian ended up being flamewars about correct debating etiquette, style, and reason.
Interesting that 2 days after a member of a Debian irc channel complained of chronic harrassment, posting web logs as proof, the ops of a related Debian channel decided to adopt polices that would make this a violation of the channel policy, and laible to get you banned.
Ah, what I love about Debian is just how _rewarding_ it is to contribute.
This time the complete distro is based on Debian/sid (even XFree) - optimal for HD Install!
Ahem. We grew out of the "..., or I quite!" argumentation a few years ago in Debian. dist-upgrade your mental pathways, or get no support. (Funny how our release logic applies to other things :)
Debian looked like (and probably is) a boys club.
At Debconf @ Toronto, Bdale used grannies as examples of the worst kind of clueless users Debian should aim at. Susan happens to be a DD and a granny, so he stood corrected, but refused my proposal to use Bush as an example for that.
<Joey> I'm here, but I usually don't respond to 'hi Joey', 'are you here',
'ping', 'pong' and other crap, but respond to real issues if I
notice somebody's talking to me. /msg is highligted or mailed,
depending if I'm around or not.
<wiggy> </the manual of joey>
As someone said @Debcof[Toronto], "Debian is a big, disfunctional family".
Would improving ease-of-use make Debian usable by the dead?
A leader can't really lead a project as huge as Debian wherever he/she wants to, unless the project agrees and supports it.
Sad to see that Debian is not about free software, even among Debian developers.
One of the difficulties in leading Debian is making sure you're going somewhere people want to go.
Debian isn't used only by hackers and Debian developers.
<wiggy> sendmail does funky things when it encounters CNAMEs <Mithrandir> s/when it encounters CNAMEs//
I prefer my fellow Debian brothers to develop rhinocerous hides.
As Debian grows we'll have more posts and it will be harder to follow. That's probably unavoidable.
Debian was the first modular distro by necessity.
I reassigned from Debian over two years ago since I was not happy with the speed of Debian releases. Since then, I have the impression things got even worse.
Debian and short release cycle are currently incompatible.
It just takes a different kind of mojo to get Debian releasing.
Regarding to popcon.debian.org we should then first drop hppa, mipsel and s390. There are apparently much less users than on m68k.
Debian becomes the nemisis of unjust licenses and non-free software!
As far as I know, before yesterday the jigdo images were using a mixture of debian-installer versions that would not work.
Please don't crosspost flamebait to multiple debian mailing lists.
I see Debian operating systems as being fully-capable platforms that can also serve as a foundation for more specific tasks.
Wooohooo! The first time in Debian's history, a candidate was beaten by none of the above! That's how I'll enter the history books!
Debian distributes the kernel. Debian does not distribute the hardware.
As I recall, the concept of an "editor" virtual package has been discussed on debian-devel several times over the years, and each time rejected as useless.
If a significant amount of machines needs stuff from non-free for a working base install, then non-free becomes a part of Debian, no matter what The Debian Project chooses to claim about it.
Debian is about freedom, so we should
struggle to not distribute non-free items.
-- Jochen Voss
Debian is the distribution that distributes the largest chunk of non-free software.
The first newbie question I asked on a Debian list in 1997 was answered (quickly and accurately) by Susan Kleinman, one of the [few] female developers.
Yes, we should put the GPL itself in non-free, and all the rest of Debian in contrib.
All software in Debian should have the freedom to use, study, modify and distribute.
You cannot censor my right to participate on debian-vote.
Or are you implying you are not a man? That would be entirely possible, I suppose. In which case I retract my statrement, you, as a woman, would obviously know what experiences women face in Debian.
Due to it's ever changing and rotating nature, it's about dead opposite the rock solid Debian distribution.
So, essentially, Debian will remain 100% Free Software, except where it doesn't.
If I were dead, I'd be rolling over in my grave right about now. The founding goal of Debian was to create a better distribution that could help bring free software to the world. Let's get on with it, shall we?
<Joy> oh my god <Joy> has Nathanael Nerode missed a mail? <Joy> he replied to like every fucking mail in the big thread
<luca> apt-get install pedantic-vrms <luca> (is that redundant or extra scary?)
I feel terrible that while trying to get more females interested about Debian I may have managed to scare off some of them with the flame I originated. I was just asking for candidate's input.
Please create a new mailing list: debian-braindead-flamewars-about-licensing-non-issues
Posting to debian lists is like hitting your head against a brick wall. It feels good when you stop.
The channel is called #debian for a reason; it's not called #debian-flirt or #horny-debian-geeks. #debian is about user questions and communication related to Debian; if you want to flirt, don't do it on #debian because you're off-topic.
Last I looked, Debian's world domination plan did not include censorship.
Debian stable might not be known for short release cycles, but it's still known for high quality packages and easy upgrades.
Posting to debian lists is like hitting your head against a brick wall.
<ifvoid> ah <ifvoid> a bug
Not only Debian admins/users should be protected from the evil beast.
<Sir_Ahzz> /me wonders if he can secure the rights and turn this
channel into a soap opera for geeks...
<elmo> Sir_Ahzz: It would be derided as being entirely unrealistic
<liiwi> Never expect IRC to carry information around <Overfiend> Unless Manoj is in the channel
The most dramatic thing from my point of view is that SuSe, Red Hat, Mandrake and community based Debian all got together to formulate a common reply. This is the BEST news we could ever hope for - a common on unified front - no forking when it comes to security.
I'm beginning to see a pattern: when non-free stuff is found, some people go "Oh dear -- we must remove that." Some people go "Well, *this* non-free stuff is *so important* that we should keep it in main, because Debian will be *useless* without it, and besides, it shouldn't have to follow the DFSG because it's in thus-and-such a category."
Oh no! Debian isn't installable on my toaster! Debian is *violating the Social Contract*!
Failing to provide non-free firmware in Debian will not reduce the quantity of firmware in the world.
If you can't choose what you buy, you have much bigger problems, well beyond Debian's ability to deal with.
I've unsubscribed from all Debian lists and except for some activity in the BTS caused by both using Debian and maintaining some backports I'll be quiet until Debian 3.1 is released and when I'll check whether my predictions were right or wrong.
We pledge to keep Debian 100% Free Software, not read the DFSG as narrowly as possible.
That ship has sailed and now we'll be dumping all the GFDL docs out of Debian.
Now that the Knights Lunar have proved that they are Holier Than Stallman, can they just get on with the job of killing Debian quickly?
At least at one point, the size of the patch file for the Debian PAM package was larger than actual tar.gz file of the original unmodified sources.
This is off-topic, but from my limited (i.e. two years) experience "no school" might mean more time for Debian, but "marriage" usually doesn't. You have been deceived.
I find Debian's aggressive behavior toward myself, and especially Richard Stallman and his GFDL, to be inappropriate and ungrateful, but I also understand that Debian is striving to define its morality, and that much of the world shares its rather asian attitude towards whether it is acceptable to not credit others for their contributions to science.
Rewrite logging was turned on for lists.debian.org. In a short time, it had produced a >2g file.
<niklaus> Doesn't Debian have a Modula 2 compiler <Tolimar> niklaus: Sue it has, I think it is called mocka. <Tolimar> +r <OUTsider> Sue it... lol :P <OUTsider> nice typo
After everything, Xu quits Debian because of *nationalism*! Excuse me now as I go away and laugh my ass off.
<Kamion> There's one common coding mistake that produces
infinite loops on unsigned char machines, e.g.
<willy> Kamion: the while(char c = getchar() != -1) { ... } favourite?
Debian users learnt about the concept of periodic execution by using cron!
If you continue to focus on me, and continue to ignore Debian, you'll end up like the dog with the bone.
> Or are you saying no one in Debian is allowed to have any "holy cows"? If I am not allowed to have a holy cow, I shall quit the project.
It's his cross to bear, not Debian's.
For Debian to be "100% Free Software", it first must be "100% Software", right?
Did I mention recently that I love the Debian tools?
Impressive, its amazing how just getting some artwork done with the project name on can turn from just being debian with fewer packages to actually feeling like a proper OS and not just a selection of certain packages.
I really like the Enlightenment Desktop, but it doesn't seem to be developed any longer. Is E still being worked on? [..] Of course, it's rumored that "E17" will be the official front-end to GNU/Hurd (with a corresponding release schedule), and may incorporate elements of Duke Nukem Forever.
I've heard comments such that "Pfeh, Debian is just getting rewritten to Python", but I've never extrapolated that Debian is being ported to C.
Personally, I think your responses in this thread provide a pretty good example of why people don't need more than 24 hours to decide it's not worth trying to have a rational conversation to change people's minds on Debian lists.
I think Debian is just being ported everywhere.
I would really like Debian to understand the difference between credits and ads.
<infinity> Land line: 07 4055 2619, Mobile (usually my girlfriend
is carrying it): 04 0063 7386.
<infinity> La la la!
<infinity> I'm a tab-deficient retard!
<infinity> <cough>
Debian wants software to be both free and plagiarizable. XFree86 and I want our software to be free but not plagiarizable.
Threads on debian-user don't mean a damn thing.
I assume that cyclic Build-Depends are acceptable in Debian.
IBM holds *so* many software patents (all invalid on their faces, of course) that if it decided to enforce them, and was successful, most of Debian would likely have to be removed.
I look forward to your entertaining contributions to the Debian trademark discussions when the trademark committee reports.
How is "periodic-exec-daemon" more generic than "cron"? I suspect that most Debian users learnt about the concept of periodic execution by using cron!!!
I object to the Release Manager's decision of choosing a military-related term ("sarge") for the next release of Debian.
If recent experience has shown us anything, it's that votes HURT Debian.
Why on earth is it soooo difficult to have 'mplayer' in Debian?
Do Debian Swirl costumes look as sexy as BSD Daemon costumes?
I don't say it is not funny, but if you really need to play games on a mailing list, use debian-curiosa or something like that, please.
<dilinger> Wow, I haven't gotten any spam from @debian.org addresses
in the past 3 days
<dilinger> That's some kind of record
* pasc wonders if that was the most useless conversation in here
ever and goes back to work
<daniels> It's sexy <fabbione> If daniels says that it's sexy, it must be pure braindamage crap
If anyone thinks Debian in general is good at communication, they're deluded.
Ah, but James is the catchall-address for problems in Debian, anyway.
<vomjom> Anyone know if PHP5 is currently being packaged? * Overfiend laughs at vomjom
If a fork is what is needed to get a useable Debian-based distribution, then a fork is necessary.
I have been told that debian is not a democracy. It just votes sometimes.
If anyone thinks that abusing debian-devel-announce or GRs is the best (or indeed "only") way to force through their pet issue, they're very much mistaken.
I was going to write a piece about Debian flamewars, but I came to think that it'd be useless.
Now the Debian project is apparently reduced to using the voting system to decide about issues like what architectures to include in the next release.
Hopefully the desire to release immediately has not thrown every other consideration out of the window, like standards conformance, quality, and policy compliance, and so on, that makes Debian a desirable OS.
Maybe you're unaware that the debian-installer project has created an installer for Debian that does full hardware detection (except X).
Whatever happens to Debian every few months, I don't know, but it surely sucks.
That's ok actually, my port of Debian to the abacus is going pretty well. Does anyone know what I need to do to get the ftpmasters to include it in the archive?
When I was but an egg in the Debian Project, back in early 1998, I *asked* where xtrs should go.
devfs went straight from being an experimental feature to being deprecated, so I'm not sure who decided to make it official in Debian.
The discussion on the debian-devel has largely conflagrated into a flame-fest of near-epic proportions.
There's a difference between being paid to do Debian developer stuff and becoming a Debian developer to get paid.
Debian is not an island with no interaction with other systems.
<Joey> aj: We cannot support both potato and woody
<Joey> supporting 17 architectures... I don't want to think about that...
<aj> Joey: so does that mean you'll be supporting none, or a select "n"?
If the latter, which?
<Joey> aj: The current answer would be: no potato updates, and no woody
updates, probably
[Mon Apr 29 2002 (two days before the designated release date)]
Even a CEO might smell a rat if two DDs present Debian certificates of radically different appearance.
The fact that you think a debian package is comparable in terms of risks and requirements to a wikipedia page kinda disturbs me.
When a NM joins I doubt he realises the self-destructive "mindshare" battle that goes on within Debian.
Debian is more a "team of champions" than a "champion team".
Debian has a goodly supply of crackpots.
I used to hold individual developers accountable for percieved problems within debian. However, im starting to realise those individuals are only partly to blame, its debians culture thats warped them.
When I saw that most of the debian/rules file in debian were long and complex and hard to understand and maintain, I didn't start a flamewar or even send and argue about a lot of patches, I just wrote a good tool to improve them.
If we say that Debian is not apolitical, will you FOAD so that people can get back to working on releasing a distribution instead of being drawn in by your trolls?
Last I checked, the only (psuedo) religious texts Debian were based on were the Foundation Documents, and the Torah is not one of those.
<eigood> Manoj: your skin isn't thick enough if what
Clint just said pushed you over the edge.
<JHM> I don't think the size of a final drop really matters.
Debian culture? Isn't that an oxymoron?
* wichert imagines master without a MTA <james> wichert: Ehm? That might hinder peformance of the BTS
Since when is there communication in Debian... Sorry I couldn't resist.
<weasel> note to self: mkswap on physical extends of an LVM considered harmful.
Windows may add adventure to your life... But with Debian you are livin' on the Etch!
Fundamentally, Debian is vulnerable to anything that is actually a better Debian.
Debian infinity (...and beyond) - is the way to go!
What you will encounter in Debian, and free software development in general, is nothing like you will encounter in the mundane world. There will be an endless stream of accusations and recriminations from other Debian developers, from upstream developers, and from users, who will turn out to be the single most stupid and ungrateful group of people you will ever encounter.
Debian is not a social club and will never be one.
Alioth is the number one unstable, most complained about service in Debian that I know of.
As far as production machines go, I have the policy to only run Debian on them.
*please*, this is debian-private, not debian-who-wants-gmail-invites.
Right now I can't even install Debian on some of my hardware because the must-have bleeding edge kernels we've upgraded to are buggy.
Do we have any high quality fonts in Debian?
If a third of our build network was not trusted by the delegates in charge of Debian's buildds, the solution is to get more trusted buildd machines, not to shove packegs in wily nilly.
Being able to work with others is a major part of working in Debian.
Personal trust exists even outside the Debian web of trust.
It saddens me to see that donations of accounts and free CPU cycles to DDs are no longer appreciated by Debian.
*sigh* I wasn't aware the procedure for becoming an official Debian subproject was to announce the project on slashdot.
I find it unacceptable that debian.org machines relay spam.
Debian provides Free Software not Free Services.
If it's so hard, why do we insist that every new Debian install include Exim?
Debian is a not-for-profit organization, so there is no point in talking about "financial loss due to false positives" here.
So I know i'm upstream, but this is the only bug tracker for nwall that exists!
This flux of fresh and new ideas around Debian is nice, as very interesting projects can be cooked in it.
If running an SMTP server from a dynamic IP host is so wrong, why do we insist that every new Debian install include exim?
* helix just uses the keyboard for everything. <helix> which nearly backfired on me earlier when I spilled water on my keyboard
Those people who always claim that Debian stable is not up to date might note that at the same time it is not old enough.
Debian developers require 28 hours in a day, as opposed to the normal 24.
Looking at Planet Debian, you could say many Debian developers don't get holidays or spend the whole day kept out from sun.
Debian stable is about providing a stable platform that people can build upon. It's about providing something that can be trusted to work, rather than one where upgrades break things.
I think this was one of the most relevant posts to debian-devel-announce during the past months.
There are more packages that I consider rather useless than that should be included in volatile.debian.net.
<madduck> weasel: does deborphan make any attempt to use the atime
of files to identify unused packages?
<weasel> no
<madduck> would this be worth to consider?
<weasel> no
<madduck> fine then.
<madduck> just a thought.
* helix just uses the keyboard for everything. <Manoj> So do I, for the most part. Except when I use the mouse.
If you've been wondering how long it takes for an email address to propagate from the Debian list archives to spammers, here's one data point: less than 71 hours.
<bubulle> Hihi... Timezone default for Catalan is Europe/Madrid.. * bubulle is sure that the people in Barcelona will *love* that...
Debian does not require source for non-free.
Is that a spammer or is this a legitimate request to get all the Debian Project spam from now on?
Perhaps most don't consider d-i betas to be true Debian releases, but I do.
<joshk> People tell me there is a module missing in sparc kernel udebs <joshk> Exactly FIVE hours after I upload a linux-kernel-di * joshk shoots murphy -- #debian-boot
<[u]> Anyways Debian seems to have a new and energetic Security Officer,
he keeps mailing
<[u]> I get more mail from Joey than from my mistress
<liiwi> /dev/cciss/c0d0p9 19G 18G 0 100% /var/list/junk <liiwi> lalalalaaa
Sometimes I could almost believe there is a libfoo.
Just because I make not money from Debian does not mean I am willing to sell out to non-free software.
<Manoj> pasc: It is past 2am, and I've been fixing policy bugs for 6 hours now <Manoj> My humour quotient is low at the moment
The benefit of conducting Debian as openly as possible is that you don't have to get particular people's advice to come up with good solutions -- you can just troll through the archives for all the data you need.
Debian is the old grandfather of Linux.
I just wonder why, if a lot of the Debian guys are working on Ubuntu, that Debian is behind.
<Joy> Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA 585-1] New shadow packages fix unintended behaviour * Joy shudders at the thought of security bugs in shadow packages * Joy has Solaris flashbacks
Everything within Debian is ultimately a human task.
<helix> gee, I hope I make it through :) I wouldn't want to disappoint
<stockholm> helix: try flirting with your AM!
<helix> umm
* helix is fairly shocked by such an inappropriate comment
coming from stockholm of all people
Ubuntu is like Debian but with few tweaks to make it more user friendly.
<wiggy> I'm somewhat scarred by the devfs fiasco though.. messy to setup <wiggy> and once I had it all sorted out it was deprecated again
<eigood> Some male should take on the name 'helix' as well.
<eigood> Then, when the 2 helix's get together, they will
be a double-helix, and life will continue
<helix> Yeah, that was lame
<liw> I see no topic, has the world ended?
<joeyh> well, until it's properly buttered, it's in my top 10 <joeyh> post-butter, it's fine <joeyh> you still using butter or did you find some margarine? <markos_> no still works on butter :-) <joeyh> new every day? <joeyh> I'd think it would get rancid <markos_> i miss the pre-butter times though :-) <markos_> no, i haven't buttered it since Oldbg <joeyh> (this man used _butter_ to grease his cpu fan) <markos_> yeah and it worked :-)
<marcus> I killed a werewolf, a black unicorn, a kitten, and I have excalibur. <marcus> The kitten was an accident.
Debian, the distribution of a hundred window managers and a thousand text editors...
<Manoj> I guess we could have Sean Penn play me
<lamont> Is there a tag for "won't be fixed until sarge+1"? <sam> Depends whether the BTS is year 2037 compliant
<liw> In the good old days, Debian had sex
The Debian website has many undocumented URLs. Each query illuminates it more. Zork lives?!
Debian has the institutional memory of an ADHD nerd.
Installing new applications and configuring old ones in Debian GNU/Linux is a breeze.
Debian made a release in the stable series (woody) on Oct. 24, and Woody has been around since 2002, so it's about the same age as WinXP.
Most computers can do Debian; it may take some effort and persistence though.
Debian is full of very smart people.
Debian is the first organization in history to have more single points of failure than actual personnel.
From package management to system dependencies, I have found Debian to be second to none.
Nonetheless, while people often complain about the difficulties of using the Debian installer, I've found it to be quite usable.
<aba> Great. elmo has done a round of cleaning up the archive. <Rhonda> Well, ubuntu is released.... Now he has time again.
If I search for "Debian Linux" on Google, a Microsoft ad is displayed next to the results. Maybe this is useful, but I don't think we want that on Debian's web pages.
Debian has an Image (not just a bootimage).
The fact that Debian doesn't 'exist'...
Hmm. a) put Google adds on web pages, b) put hot babe on web pages, linked to clickthorough volumes, c) profit, d) hire all Debian developers full time.
This shameless attempt to turn Debian into a puppet of the US corporate government will not be permitted to succeed.
Actually, it's just proof that Debian is mentally ill.
I think it's impossible for Debian to be meaningfully involved without first having a clear understanding of what would be expected of us
I request that you be replaced from your 'Official Debian whiner' position.
In fact I'm using Debian exactly because it doesn't try to apeal ISVs, IHVs, OEMs and other business-driven three-letter acronyms.
Look, this is Debian. They don't release things until you have to fire rockets at the thing to stop it working.
Limiting free speech for list contributors is probably not what the Debian project should do.
Anything on a Debian list that looks like a single large 'thread' is invariably several dozen threads, mislabelled.
Debian is essentially an eclectic anarchy.
Debian already has four levels of version: stable, testing, unstable, and the new expiremental. Adding any more levels or options to the process will only slow down the release of stable.
Debian will continue to distribute GFDL manuals in its archive anyway. No replacements are needed as far as most of our users are concerned.
<azeem> Eh, this is discomforting. A firefighter ladder just appeared <azeem> next to my office window with a lamp shining into my eyes. <flamingcow> Umm <flamingcow> Is your office on fire? <azeem> Dunno
I think Debian has already lost its defining role in software freedom.
For Debian, software is everything that is stored or transmitted in digital form.
Suggesting that Debian should use tools that are not part of its distribution to present itself does not make sense.
Please! Trust in my magic CEO powers! I never leave my home for more than three hours without my Debian mirror!
Debian isn't lowering priority on Linux 2.4 work but individual people are.
I need to compile libc4 on a brand-new unstable Debian machine in order to run a 10-year old executable (it only needs /libc.so.4).
8,920 source packages in Debian unstable main. 8,254 declare a build-dependency on debhelper = 92% of packages build-depend on debhelper.
I've no ambitions to become famous for hacking the Debian server a second time.
In the process of making shadow one of most babelish packages in Debian as well as break the record for the number of successive NMUs to a given package, a few translations have been added in the 4.0.3-30.8 release.
Maybe the first thing to learn, when trying to enter the Debian community, is to be patient and respectful.
I suppose, that in the GPL sense, non-free *is* part of Debian.
Please stop turning debian-legal into a pissing contest.
Remember, if you break Debian, you get to keep both parts.
<Overfiend> Ugh. Singular they. Death to iwj.
<peterS> This is a channel of idle-worshippers
<infinity> Nonsense. This channel is a flurry of babble. <infinity> You just need a secret decoder glasses to see it.
Archive key management in Debian is suboptimal. Very suboptimal. Sorry.
What is needed is a Debian package that instead of storing the files to /usr/share/doc infuses the knowleged straight to the users brain.
The last thing Debian needs is more ignorant assholes.
<weasel> Or the DAM could run for DPL <peterS> elmo is not believed to exist by enough people to vote for him, though
<peterS> Is the Hurd ever going to make another release <Overfiend> What the FUCK do you MEAN, "another"?
<Overfiend> I've got Alzheimer's *AND* Manoj's Syndrome,
and I'm coming off better than you.
So, the nature of the Debian Cabal is that its existence, if it exists, is only known to its members, should there be any members.
We no longer make releases. We provide the basis from which others make releases -- Ubuntu, Progeny, Knoppix, Custom Debian dists etc pp.
Blaming operational failures on emotional factors is a recurring theme in both Debian and SPI.
* vorlon loves the bizarre claim that Xouvert is named after the "Babylonian goddess of open windows."
So Joey is a malnourished weakling that Debian has locked up in a dungeon, forced to work on Debian 24/7?
<aj> What makes you think members of the cabal actually know they're members?
<peterS> A cabal whose members don't realise they're in a cabal isn't much to
speak of
<aj> helix: (YM "they seemed annoyed" right?) <helix> I will not be gender-neutral-language trolled
<Joey> s-s and s-p-u use the same buildd chroot as well <elmo> [argh acryonym overload]
<aj> "In the process of preparing to release sarge we have discovered
some inadequacies in the woody security infrastructure. As such,
and in accordance with our "when it's ready" policy, we are
officially unreleasing woody. We hope to be able to once again
release woody as stable in the next few months, sarge should be
released approximately six months later."
In Debian, configuration utilities can do anything, no matter how stupid, without it being considered an RC bug.
Traditionally, Debian is more concerned with maintaining the lifecycle of your system with incremental package upgrades rather than painful release upgrades and operating system re-installs.
You certainly seem to get people motivated. I've never seen Debian developers as united as in some of the threads you've been involved in on d-private. The difficulty I see is that they were all united *against* you.
<jvw> Eh, 1635 leaving at heathrow, 1805 arrival vancouver <jvw> That's 1.5 hour <helix> Haha <helix> Hooray for timezones <jvw> Oh... Dammit
If changing a program makes it better, Debian should do it even if upstream doesn't.
Debian is about an Operating System, not about DFSG-freeing all the world's copyrighteable items.
<wiggy> Anyone here familiar with dbus? <bob2> wiggy: the Two Daniels <wiggy> 2? He replicated? <StevenK> Jesus, I hope not.
A BSP means that many DDs and other mere mortals get together to play xroach. Sadly, that package was removed from Debian some time ago, so they have to squash other bugs (preferably RC) instead.
<Joey> Gnarf, Joey and I have reported the same bug. <Joey> I can only pretend that Joey's bug was't visible when I wrote my report. <helix> You're confusing me * helix reminds Joey that he's Joey
I'm just following Debian's philosophy. Debian differentiates between free and non-free stuff; we try to convince other people to change their non-free to free stuff; if we cannot even manage that with the Debian conference, then, well...
I have had my own computer since I turned two. By the time I was nine, my computer ran Debian...
If I wanted to hurt Debian users, I'd become a mirror admin.
<wiggy> At least I got some mail for valentine <wiggy> Unfortunately it was a bill
Because Debian is a volunteer project it is always possible to shed responsibility, but the way to do it is to resign one's position.
If you spend money out of your own pocket to help Debian and want to be repaid you are an evil idiot.
What "Freibier" is for Germans, "keysigning" is for Debian-Guys.
These days, Debian is "infrastructure".
Taking care of the social aspects of Debian is important to the health of the project.
However, since this appears to be the year for total failure to comprehend how the process works, I would like to take this opportunity to nominate 14 kilos of mature cheddar cheese, the entire population of Swaziland, and a dead camel, as a single candidate for Debian Project Leader.
I must admit, I spent enough of the weekend tired, drunk etc. that I don't remember who exactly was in charge of the Debian booth.
Regardless of original intent, DWN is currently the Debian tabloid press.
Debian developers are perhaps the strictest adherents to open source and Free Software development methodology due to their Social Contact.
Apparently Debian works just fine without me, which is how it should be.
I'd love to see groups like debian-chocolate-lovers, debian-nudists (gnudists?), debian-corporate, or debian-world-domination emerge.
Dammit man! It's a list of women in Debian! Men are not women! Get a hobby!
Krooger is like Debian's dirty little secret.
As long as the major vendors say "Linux" and mean "SuSE and/or Redhat", there is no support for Debian.
Any definition of source code, to be useful to the Debian Project in applying our Free Software Guidelines, has to be broadly applicable.
I would like Debian to show more respect for me, by removing Emacs and KDE.
Debian doesn't have to be mirrored anywhere.
* liiwi prefers dselect * Joey too, it was so intuitive.
Debian can be used to draw a picture of naked people.
If the GNU Manifesto was under a Free license, then Debian would distribute it, without any coersion.
A significant number of packages in Debian are not integral to Debian.
Debian is not Project Gutenberg. Debian is about software.
I love how Debian has no sacred cows.
<zobel> Wah, vorlon did a mass bug filing on php4 and I
can't find the announcement on debian-devel@
<vorlon> Would you like me to post-announce it?
<nobse> 2.6.11 doesn't build on alpha.
<nobse> Same shit every new kernel release.
<ths> Normal. Fix all the subarches and 2.6.12
will be out in the meanwhile (and break it again).
Soon in Debian has its very own special meaning.
Patching debian/rules sounds like changing shoes while running the 100 meters track.
Many of our users come to Debian because they want a community-developed, binary-based distribution.
Well, I had never heard of anyone crazy enough to patch debian/rules at runtime... You're the first.
<Yoe> what filesystem is gluck running off of? <ths> A broken one. :-) <Yoe> Apparently
Where do fully automated bug preventing techniques really work in Debian?
Debian explicitly considers the ability to modify and reuse a work to be crucial and fundamental.
Bear in mind that people outside Debian might not be familiar with our usual linguistic gymnastics.
<Alfie> Debian is doomed..... <Alfie> Upstream Author: Microsoft Corporation <Alfie> Package: pptview
I have this thing called a day job which sometimes take priority over reading debian-legal postings.
<Manoj> Well, dvt was _supposed_ to be simple <Manoj> It only took 2 weeks to write <moshez> It requires a *diagram* to explain what each part does.
<wiggy> not a real surprise afaik <luca> wiggy: insmod sarcasm.o
Debian has nothing to do with Microsoft or SCO. Please don't put the three in the same bucket.
Debian may not be much fun any more, but at least it is predictable.
Once upon a time, Debian was famous for it's working upgrades.
Debian's mailing lists are its nervous system, and our list archives our collective memory.
Debian is kinda like office space. Do something right, noone notices. Do one thing wrong, all the big names in the project lart you.
- fatal("decode_addr: unsafe IP address"); + self_destruct();
The Enterprise Ready Linux Distributions out there will never EVER reach the quality level Debian ships with.
It is not possible to send mail to a Debian mailing list any more without offending somebody.
<Joey> Hmm,... Did people already forgot what a freeze meant?
<azeem_> It's been five years or so since the last freeze
- we are all getting older
A DD in Iran will possible make debian-women jump in triangles.
<eddyp> What in God's name does "degenerate filename" mean in a dpkg context?
<asuffield> Yeah, that's a real dpkg moment. "Worsel the green clear? [K/p]"
<vorlon> eddyp: Has anyone else successfully translated that string?
<vorlon> (in other languages)
<asuffield> This is the point when you discover that the french translation
says "This message is unintelligable crap"
<helix> Only with my "fuck off" boots on <Clint> Are those like fuck-me pumps gone wrong?
Mark, not everyone who criticises Debian is attempting to destroy us.
<Joey> I plan to cease woody support one year after the sarge
release or at the etch release, whatever happens earlier.
While Debian is certainly about beer, and in some cases may even be about free beer, Debian is mainly about free speech.
To say that Debian is no longer just for geeks would be an exaggeration.
<liw> You know, Debian will have really taken over the world when porn
stars start taking on pseudonyms modeled after Debian developers.
<liw> like... Lara Witchnius
<madduck> You know the difference between Debian and MacOS? <fjp> They both run on intel? <madduck> Almost. Debian will run on PowerPC in the future too.
First, Apple switches to Intel, and now, equally shocking: Debian Sarge is released!
Official Debian releases have a reputation for having older software versions.
Is the Cabal supposed to be the pendant of the Godwin point for Debian-related discussions?
I don't know which project you've been part of, but this has always been the case in Debian for me. There are certain individuals known to be difficult, but most of them are just as friendly and eager to help. So unless you are very thin-skinned, you quickly learn whom to avoid.
Sayin something like 'this is wrong' in debian-legal discussion smells a bit like 'you're wrong I'm right, nya nya, I can't hear you'.
I forgot that Canonical's business model is to use Ubuntu as a staging area for Debian, so that we're always lagging behind.
I think Debian annoys enough people already without adding more ways.
I think Ubuntu is a good thing for Debian precisely because it will take away some of Debian's users.
Can we create a debian-thanks-joey list? It would probably get more traffic than debian-security.
The period just after a stable Debian release has always been an interesting time.
Use just a *little* bit of common sense. Oh, wait, common sense doesn't exist in Debian.
The Debian Policy does not, and cannot, have a rule for every case where some judgement is to be applied while making Debian packages.
Encouraging people so inexperienced as to post stupid RFSes to upload more things to Debian is not particularly productive.
Most people do Debian as a hobby but for Joey my impression is that he spends more time on Debian than other people on their job.
StevenK to madduck: I will do anything you say for the next five hours.
Look, I am the libdvdcss author, I do the libdvdcss Debian packages, I am a Debian maintainer, I should know if Marillat butchers my software. And he does.
The reason for Joey being listed that often is that he really lives Debian.
If you're pretty much automatically accepting any kind of contribution it's not a Debian package any more.
Somehow I have the impression that Ian Murdock knows a little bit about Debian - we don't need to explain how it works to him. I think. Maybe.
* dpkg eats madduck, *CHOMP* *CHOMP* *CHOMP* and catches Mad Cow Disease
I think that none of these things warrant a major version bump, and the Debian major version number should be increased with releases of fspanel.
I suspect that any effective trademark policy is going to be inconsistent with Debian's founding goals.
Recently Debian seems to have grown a very large set of toes that is impossible not step onto.
In general, we don't have to address this with a trademark policy. The wrath of a dozen or so Debian developers is probably sufficient.
<someone> What happens when we run out of toy story characters? <madduck> someone: then we use types of cheese. <madduck> Debian Gruyère - aged 3 years
Debian is unique in its balance between caring principally about the source yet providing trustworthy binaries.
Traditionally, Mozilla doesn't have any security support in Debian.
Debian-based distributions are an ecosystem now and that's not the fault of nor limited to Ubuntu.
If we use easier tools than the rest of Debian, we are doing ourselves an injustice.
<Nigel> If I had vorlons knowledge of Debian bugs etc,
I'd most likely be worried + seeing a shrink.
<vorlon> I only see shrinks when I mix alcohol with medication;
and they go away when my vision clears up
I will killfile Andrew Suffield so I do not recieve Debian list email from him but only if 100 other people on Debian lists will too.
Do you seriously think that a new organization which hasn't actually talked to Debian at all before being created will help bring some of these closer to Debian proper?
<mrvn> If computers were spaceships we could fly to
Alpha Centaury and be back for lunch.
<madduck> Yeah, and explode on the way back when it's an odd day, or
full moon, or somewhere in the universe someone whistles wrongly.
<lifeless> Exactly.
We should permit Debian Developers to be as obnoxious as they like to our users without anything more than hand-wringing or expressions of dismay?
[after the glibc 2.3.5 upload to unstable]
<doogie> /usr/lib/kaffe/pthreads-profile/jre/bin/kaffe-bin: relocation
error: /usr/lib/kaffe/pthreads-profile/jre/bin/kaffe-bin:
symbol __libc_stack_end, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in
file ld-linux.so.2 with link time reference
<doogie> Anything recent that may have caused this to break?
<vorlon> doogie: what, like a new glibc?
<doogie> Isn't glibc backwards compatible?
<vorlon> Not when it says GLIBC_ bloody PRIVATE
There is one important difference between FidoNet and Debian however, Debian has a collective aim that involves working together.
The programs, scripts and infrastructure that comprise and facilitate the development of a distribution such as Debian are, for the most part, technically complex.
After the upgrade we called Mark telling him we found a way to compress RAM up to 50%. He was close to fire both elmo and me.
<Beowulf> Damn, it went out of my mind right now.
A new Debian maintainer is also a Ubuntu maintainer in some sense.
It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating system that's the reason for its existence.
Creating a fork is a means of improving Debian.
On a technical level, udev is too Gentoo for me, it's far from stable, and thus far from non-optional integration into Debian.
<Overfiend> description: The requested resource () is not available. <Overfiend> I like that description. <Overfiend> Very informative.
* neuro wonders again why time was spent setting up testing-security, only to never be used by anyone...
Debian is not a commercial entity just because it also sells T-Shirts and other stuff.
<Overfiend> How am I supposed to parasitically leech cycles off your
neurons if you don't answer my questions? Selfish bastards.
So LWN did this article (subscriber only) and somehow I found myself with tons of mails about Debian and security in my inbox and hours spent on IRC too today. Almost as if I were the other Joey.
A few days ago I installed sarge and found it the worst Debian distro because no new features is valuable to me.
<calc> They use GPL code indiscriminantly from what my supervisor told me
<Overfiend> Indiscriminantly? They can't determine how many roots
the parse tree has?
I wonder how many of the people who constantly whine about Debian removing non-free documentation have ever thanked the authors of any of the many free docs in Debian for their work?
We should strive to increase the quality in Debian.
<Overfiend> #d-d is supposed to be faster than Google, damn it.
<ari> are you guys waiting for the FBI agents to raid the channel <asuffield> what are they going to do, confiscate all the stupid? * doogie suddenly finds himself alone in the channel
<Md> Is there anybody around who owns a ZIP IDE drive?
<asuffield> I am not rummaging in my pile of hardware just to locate my old
zip drive for some hotplug bullshit that I don't care about
<Md> I love you too
<eigood> vorlon: so, write a library <eigood> like pam * vorlon vomits
<dato> a Gentoo user explained to me once what their support
for different architectures was.
<dondelelcaro> That must have hurt
* Rhonda suggests to rename security.debian.org to lamp.debian.org because it hosts all the packages these days....
* HE dances the broken buildd chroot dance.
<vorlon> madduck: or you could pick one of the two, and then you don't have
to wait for me to be at the computer for the decision to be made.
<helix> how does a cpu session get interrupted by debian-women?
<liw> vorlon, do I look like I know what I'm talking about? <liw> no, don't answer that!
<aj> vorlon: would it be less subtle if we replaced red, green
and yellow with black, white and a shade of grey?
<vorlon> aj: "and this is what a necrotic port looks like"?
<aj> vorlon: the arch qualification table, halloween edition?
Packages that nobody will install should not be in the Debian archive.
It takes more keystrokes to enter a windows license key than it takes to do a complete Debian desktop install!
Debian is slowly sinking into the muck and it's fun watching it happen.
Personally, I'd rather people spread FUD about Debian than have Debian not act with utmost care about publishing private notifications of security information.
You can do a presentation on your cat if you like, but only if your cat uses Debian.
The Debian QA team is somewhat disorganized and understaffed.
Thank god we have actual users who help us make Debian better as opposed to developers who are too busy running Ubuntu.
Wouldn't it save everybody a lot of heartache and bother if Ubuntu just worked on Debian instead?
Personally, I think it's cryptographic snake oil, at least in so far as it relates to Debian.
I know this is a contrived use case, but Ubuntu doesn't use any .debs from Debian.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is dig through the Perl code in merkel:/org/bugs.debian.org/scripts and work out how to add this functionality.
Better yet, we should make WindowMaker the only window manager in Debian. Down with GNOME and KDE!
In my entire involvement with Debian from the development side, I've never seen the NEW queue being processed as quickly as it is these days.
The whole Debian system is a serious pain and an impediment to cooperation.
The quality of Debian is not bad at all.
<mpo> Hmm, what's the preferred way to check (in maint scripts)
whether package x is installed?
<jaldhar> Try and remove it. If it works, it was installed.
Bitte sagt mir, ob man hier bei Euch Erotik sehen und hören kann.
One of the specific requirements is that ftp.d.o will /not/ be a full mirror, in order to make it trivially easy for people to mirror Debian usefully without filling up their disk.
There are at least a thousand people working on Debian. Everyone has their own motivation, and the only common goal we have, the goal of the Debian project, is to create a free operating system.
Wtf? I come back from the weekend and try to read up on debian-devel and it seeme somebody must have given out free crack...
I guess JoeyH installs Debian systems with his big toe these days...
<schue> I thought that knuth is basically dodging the DFSG
on 3l1t3 Knuthian superpowers.
<schue> he pointed his algorithmic omni-pinky at us and said "nay, i am knuth".
The Debian version of 'terrorism' is 'anti-social'.
I cannot recall any time when differing opinions have resulted in silence on a Debian mailing list.
Debian seems to be good at motivating people to write their theses now.
The relevance of GNU's four basic freedoms is absolutely zero in a Debian context.
Given Ubuntu hopelessly complicates everything, pretends there is cooperation where there is none, and merely duplicates the effort of the debian-desktop project, and contributes nothing to the community or society, what's stopping us from officially discouraging Ubuntu's existence?
It's disappointing, then, that Debian is so fixed in stone that it's incapable of correcting its mistakes.
How does Debian win from encouraging people to split off saying, "Don't use the mailing lists, use this third-party forum nobody uses instead?"
The Debian Project of course is the ultimate volunteer organization with a democratic community and top notch 'open source' ideals.
The day when working on Debian requires the use of a web interface will be the day that I hunt down and painfully kill the person responsible for doing it.
We need to promote the easy entry points to contributing to Debian more prominently and should hide the "how to become a DD" in comparison.
Ubuntu is not part of the Debian world, because it does not share the values that found Debian.
I believe it is more important to address that directly rather than spending time working around the issue and further balkanising Debian into teams who need to defend their 'turf'.
The amount of disk it takes to carry a complete Debian copy is simply going to be increasing.
Please consider ALL code written/maintained by me that is present in Ubuntu and is not bit-identical to code/binaries in Debian to be not suitable for release with my name on it.
You're only one inside Debian and you can't generalize your personal opinion on the whole project.
The Debian archive key does not take part in the web of trust.
I refuse to tie any part of Debian that I work on to a system where the code isn't free.
I think Debian ought to have a gong.
Let's face it: Debian wouldn't exist without the FSF.
Well, they are no powerpc macs, so I guess having debian running on them is probably similar to running Debian on any random x86 box, with the added hurdle that you will find some closed hardware and maybe hostility from apple.
Well, they are no powerpc macs, so I guess having debian running on them is probably similar to running Debian on any random x86 box, with the added hurdle that you will find some closed hardware and maybe hostility from apple.
Xandros does not employ a significant number of people in important single-point-of-failure-positions in Debian, most notably not the people who are notoriously known for not doing the job they have volunteered for.
Do we call RMS a Debian developer? Do we call Linus a Debian Developer? Does anyone seriously consider that?
Right, Debian is driven by volunteers and I'm pretty sure there are some volunteers willing to help ftp-admins to manage the archives. So isn't the simple solution to have more ftp-admins?
Debian is applying human judgement when interpreting a set of guidelines. Only the OSI has ever claimed that the DFSG are a suitable set of rules that can be applied literally and mechanically to licenses to determine their freeness; Debian never has.
If Debian would really require people to be allowed to sue the author of Free Software at any place on the earth, Debian would be anti-social.
It's taking up all my time, fighting the etch pool... We've had a lot of trouble, because the Debian community has become so active.
If Debian really goes this way, it seems that I need to make public that Debian is anti-social and supporting people who like to infringe the copyright and license.
debian-legal in 2003 *was* a fringe minority in itself.
Debian needs more than just people maintaining packages.
I tried already to mirror the ftp.debian.at mirror... But after ca 170G my harddisk was full...
Looking at the way Debian maintains my software makes me believe that Debian might have died.
<dilinger> --- #python :You need to be identified to join that channel <dilinger> freenode needs to just fucking go away
I think that one of the biggest problems Debian is currently facing is the inability to make decisions.
The reason Debian can't compete with Ubuntu for the Desktop/new to Linux users is that Ubuntu makes choices where Debian won't or can't.
Debian has had its fair share of waiting due to new infrastructure.
Instead of asking the DPL what they'll do to solve All The Problems In Debian, why don't you ask yourself what "you" can do to improve the situation?
<weasel> hmm <weasel> > Package: deborphan <weasel> > Version: 1.7.18 <weasel> > Severity: normal <weasel> > Is there any special reason why this package is bash dependant? * weasel ponders replying <weasel> To: -done <weasel> yes.
I'd love to make Debian a more friendly place for everyone.
An expulsion process is the most hateful thing that can be done to a Debian developer.
<helix> I like how cddl is pronounced though <stockholm> how is it pronouced? <helix> cuddle
If you're trying to make a difference, run for DPL yourself, or use the time to get some work done on Debian.
<madduck> I feel like a whore. <madduck> I *want* to do Debian. <madduck> And yet the money persuades me to do something else.
<neuro> tbm: mipsel has no buildd until we get the RAM fixed. <Yoe> neuro: Wasn't a gig of RAM added to the mipsel buildd recently? <neuro> Yes. And now it gets random RAM corruption.
<peterS> oh and we already have D.I.E.T.libc <liw> but do we have the Bug from U.N.C.L.E?
"Grandmother, what a big debdiff you have." "That's because I changed configure.in and re-ran autoconf2.13, my child."
Maybe we should include in the voting process a statement, to be signed with the person's key, that goes something like "I assert that I have read the relevant background on this issue and am able to make an informed decision for the good of the Debian Project"?
I, too, still don't see a reason to add yet another kernel to Debian.
Luckily, the group of people that are just applying to get a cool @debian.org address is quite small.
There is already an inherent unfairness in Debian's voting system when the vote of a relatively modest contributor and less-than-one-year DD like me counts exactly as much as each of the votes of Javier Fernandez- -Sanguino Pen~a, Christian Perrier, Manoj Srivastava, Ian Jackson or Joey Schulze - each of whom is tenfold voteworthy next to me.
If you base any opinon about something in Debian on the presence of a cabal, your conclusion will be fundamentally incorrect.
I think that people who judge the health of the Debian project based on the very public resignation of a single developer from a single role are uninteresting and irrelevant.
<pusling> Threaded programming is good to shoot yourself in both
feet on the same time, according to the book I have got.
<sgran> ... and to never be sure where the bullet came from.
Anyone taking psych counsel from debian-project needs psych counsel.
In many ways, Debian is more of a social movement than a Free Software distribution.
In a large part, changelogs are the history books of Debian.
Ubuntu has diverged enough from Debian that you can no longer assume a Debian package will install and run in Ubuntu or vice versa.
This second Eray Award of the year goes to Kai Hendry for his "No GPG thanks" blog post, suggesting to use something like a wiki to manage package uploads to Debian in lieu of GPG-authenticated uploads.
A flame-war on debian-devel is nothing new, in fact it's the standard practice.
<Snow-Man> Damn, we *rock*! <wiggy> for very sucky values of rock
Debian differs from all serious real world companies by trying to work out in the open as much as possible.
Debian will survive the Towns era.
Debian should follow the FSSTND at least, and be able to cope with people installing their own binaries in common places such as /usr/bin, etc.
Debian has an unparalleled reputation for stability and security.
Debian shouldn't be the Linux Distribution of Cryptic Acronyms.
Debian is far from broken.
If SPI wish to withdraw from their relationship with Debian, then that's entirely possible to arrange.
Debian is perfecly able to excercice hate onto any of its members.
You'll never hear *me* saying that the Vancouver proposal is one of the brighter points in Debian history.
* HE wants applicants to write about the sex life, to make debian-newmaint more interesting
<madduck> vorlon: I'll put the gcc 2.96 code into the source package. <vorlon> madduck: I changed my mind, I'll kill you myself after all. <madduck> vorlon: Awesome. Bring some cheddar with you, okay?
Social politics creeping into Debian is one of the greater mortal dangers that we face.
Debian has always been far more than a cold, harsh, faceless corporate entity with no social presence.
<stockholm> liw: up already? <liw> no, I'm typing in my sleep
And at least hundreds of people appear to be reading debian-private on slashdot news.
<Cord> Boa. Python is b0rken. <Joey> Cord: by design
<madduck> So I cannot upload mdadm compiled with 2.96 to unstable *now*? <vorlon> You can, if you want to speed your journey towards duck heaven.
Everyone agrees that Ubuntu couldn't exist without Debian, but I also believe that Debian is better setup to take Ubuntu where it needs to go.
<ari> bigger, longer, and dcut.
I think that the difficulty of submitting a Debian bug report via the BTS provides a very useful barrier against poor-quality bug reports.
Debian has no need to know my birthdate or -place and I don't see a reason to stuff that kind of information into a database.
<madduck> Any suggestions? <mrd> Submit a feature request to LSB? <madduck> And wait 15 years? <mrd> Eh, that's only 2 or 3 debian releases from now.
I'm also always hesitant to deviate Debian default behavior for utilities like tar from upstream.
The Debian project is like the Phoenix of myth. However many times it dies, it will always rise again from its own asses.
When you let the other distros be dogs you take for a walk (for the purpose of this comparison), running back and forth and showing their speed and agility to the world, Debian is the dog's owner, walking steadily in one direction and never turning back. And it can only do so, because the dog's owner has a broader goal than the dog.
I have very little feeling for what SPI does, as long as they do not lose Debian money for the third time.
<aj> Hopefully tomorrow I'll have enough energy to do
something useful rather than make work
<MadCoder> aj: I've solved your problem here
<MadCoder> make work
<MadCoder> make: *** No rule to make target `work'. Stop.
<_rene_> Anyone knows whether overly long build-dep lines give problems to
sbuild, dpkg-whatever, etc? Long defined as > 800
<joeyh> You call that long?
<joeyh> joey@kodama:~/src/d-i/installer>grep Build-Depends debian/control|wc -c
<joeyh> 1353
Debian users will soon be unable to report new bugs. The bug tracking system uses a limited, fixed size integer for doing calculations on bug numbers, and the project is soon reaching its limits.
For anyone who has ever complained that Debian is hard to install, go try Solaris and then come back.
<marga> !polygen nm <enrico> marga: 15. Are Debian Women useful? How do you correct them? <marga> !!!!!!
You realize that "any time now", in debian-developer-speak, could mean within the next hour just as easily as it could mean within a year or two?
I run Debian on laptops and desktops just fine.
<ore> The FSF doesn't endorse anything, actually <ore> Most GNU project machines use Ubuntu nowadays <Corsac> We should rename non-free something like "universe" or "extra"
<_rene_> vorlon: I get asked about #381671 constantly
<_rene_> vorlon: is there any plan to fix this for etch?
<vorlon> _rene_: sure, if people start taking care of their
own packages so I can take care of mine.
As long as people from Debian are on calumiation campaigns aginst OSS authors, Debian needs to be called non-free.
The social contract doesn't define what "The Debian system" is.
Debian burns bandwidth far faster than it raises money.
Vixie cron was last released in '93. In many distributions it's still used, but in eg, Debian, the package is the result of 13 years of patches on top of that release.
There aren't many people who's contributions to Debian match that of Manoj.
If someone creates a nice frontend with a big button saying "Push me to download & burn the latest Debian CD/DVD", users won't care if it uses bittorrent in the background.
* dondelelcaro really falls in love with the total lack of changelog information in imagemagick's subversion repository
dpkg (1.4.0.20) unstable; urgency=low
* Disabled --force-overwrites.
* Removed core file from source
-- Michael Alan Dorman <mdorman@debian.org> Tue, 9 Jan 2018 03:34:28 -0500
* helix morbidly wonders what will happen when we all begin dying of old age
<trave11er> helix: "connection reset by peer" :-)
<peterS> helix: you're still a child, don't start worrying until Manoj
and I start dropping off
<helix> If my last name were 'schilling', I would totally drop the s
* joeyh is a wimp -- he can't write code w/o documenting it at first or at least concurrently
The Debian Inquirer admits defeat. Reality can't be parodied.
* HE still wonders what kind of crack pipe you need to believe that
something like replacing close by disconnect (or the other way round)
would be a good reason to break dozens of r-deps
<vorlon> have you looked at dbus? ;)
<HE> Too much, actually. I needed to fix some dbus compile errors on
OpenBSD a few days ago.
<vorlon> then you understand it's not so much a crack /pipe/ as it is a
crack /bus/
<vorlon> to better facilitate the sharing of crack
Technically, *everything* in Debian is "contrib" because it depends on non-free software shipped with your computer, such as the BIOS.
Debian isn't fun. There's too many wankers.
The quality Debian has is because people work on the parts they have interest in themself to get improved.
Debian is the last Linux distribution I intend to work on.
As a user, the size of Debian's archive is a major selling point.
<nutmeg> Most evil bug in sid: #351043 gnudoku:
generates puzzles with multiple solutions
<mrvn> Uh oh, stop the presses, delay the release.
During the last ten days the amount of pointless flamewars on debian-devel and -private has been remarkably low. Please keep it that way.
I'd add that the harm done by this "experiment" is already so huge that there's unfortunately no turning back, and it seems quite obvious that Debian will never be again what it was before, and that is very sad.
The Debian project has a number of checks and balances already in place to ensure that useful activity isn't blocked.
The purpose of Debian is to provide Free Software, not to provide a lecture about it.
It's worth bearing in mind that Debian's position on both Free Software and trademarks is very complex and not entirely consistent.
I'm having some doubts that a SSL lib with a 0.1 version, which was released only a week ago provides real benefit to Debian.
Even more disturbing, Ubuntu has been built for more architectures than they released edgy for, while some people in Debian are trying to reduce the number of architectures in the hope of getting towards a shorter release cycle, which Ubuntu has just admitted to be suboptimal for server installations by preparing an "LTS" release.
Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'.
<Manoj> Shit. I said don't when I meant do on -policy <Manoj> damned fingers
Debian releases slipping by a month or two are ho-hum.
Everyone else is getting drunk, and it affects me. I make the silly bet about Debian releasing on time: if we do, I'll get a Debian tattoo. Not to worry, I win either way.
My paid job is neither related to Debian nor to my activities within Debian, so I must admit that I have been a fool to give time to Debian without return, and I will now look for some medical help to diagnose and cure this distortion of reality perception.
I have more messages in my Debian mail today *about* spam than I do actual spam received via Debian.
I have more messages in my Debian mail today *about* spam than I do actual spam received via Debian.
* trave11er would take erich's whining over joey's whining any time :-)
I'm of the opinion that Ubuntu could not exist without Debian.
Do you want me to report a Debian bug for each upstream issue? Or do you really believe upstream bugs don't apply to Debian packages?
Debian GNU/Linux is an Operating System and NOT A GADGET from Redmond.
<kyllikki> hmm it needs netbeans...whatever they are <rjek> Things that make your network fart.
Mark Shuttleworth wants Ubuntu to replace Debian on all market segments, turning Debian into a provider for unstable packages. But we have no reason to help him.
<weasel> cryogen: we did one of those matrix things last time. <cryogen> we did? <cryogen> i wasn't involved :) <Myon> you took the other pill
20. What would you do if you wanted to retire from the project? Remove the passphrase from the (secret) gpg key and post it to debian-devel. The keyring maintainers will lock the account ASAP.
<astronut> xmms won't build int Ubuntu because Ubuntu lacks sin() <astronut> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xmms2/+bug/62987 <jamessan> Based on all the religious wars, I thought Ubuntu was full of sin
<maxx> !polygen nm <enrico> 17. Can you explain how would you do to close our beloved DPL? <pusling> DPL-done@bugs.debian.org ? <adn> no, DPL-close@ and mention the version <adn> because we still have bugs with older DPLs
* debian/glame.xpm: Add crappy menu icon. * debian/rules: Install crappy menu icon. * debian/glame.menu: Make use of crappy menu icon. Closes: #299367
<Ralphis> The Internet isn't a truck you can just dump things on. <rjls> Yeah it is, its called geocities.
<richiefrich> jilles thank u <richiefrich> I thought it was +c * weasel wonders if color would make a 'you' out of a 'u'
<weasel> .oO ( SOAP - for when 90% overhead just isn't enough )
<asuffield> and Apple's developers are permanently on acid <asuffield> "let's reimplement Unix in shiny green"
And all the time Debian is changing from being free to a cabal + slaves. Now DDs aren't even allowed to upload binaries anymore.
<p2-mate> yeah, imake is not better <ari> imake is obviously Improved Make <p2-mate> it's idiots make
Debian never was a conservative distro, so all kind of things can be changed.
<Manoj> Hmm. -private is about to blow up again, I see. <pusling> You make me curious. Either don't leak anything or leak a bit more.
Debian is a thousand-member entity whose members operate according to numerous more or less standardized beliefes and procedures, with various intricate or general twists and undertones.
* Joey notices Alfie can read manpages
<madduck> Greek words are among the worst things that could have
happened to academia. Now every shmuck can pretend to
have something to say and make it sound spiffy.
<jaldhar> well boustrophedon to you
<madduck> see? :)
<Yoe> why does wireless LAN suck so much? <pusling> because it misses its wires? <Yoe> pusling: no, because half your packets go kaboom <pusling> isn't it related ? <Yoe> slightly
<Lo-lan-do> Wait, isn't anna part of dak? <HE> No <HE> We have no harem anymore.
Begin a member of the Debian project is a privilege.
<weasel> dpkg: shut up <dpkg> No, I won't, and you can't make me. :P <weasel> Hah. _I_ can
If they can't use the BTS, they can't make a proper Debian package.
<joeyh> Why does reportbug eat 130 MB of memory all of a sudden? <KiBi> Browsing wnpp bugs?
It's difficult to pay people to work on core Debian things if you do it publically.
Everything in Debian should be decided by vote. It is so efficient.
* eigood has a 'solution' to the naked pc 'problem' <eigood> buy parts
And, yeah, Debian just lost one long-time user, when I have the time...
We're Debian. There is no need to be civilised.
Trolling organizations are illegal in Vanuatu. We shouldn't allow any Debian developers to break the laws of Vanuatu.
All unofficial archives serve a purpose, but they are not all compatible with Debian's primary goals.
I think in some respects Debian is blowing a pretty big opportunity.
Debian developers who review every line from upstream tend to maintain fewer packages and take longer to get new upstream releases packaged.
Small Debian shirts are such a rare and precious good!
Deliberately or not, Debian maintainers are on average very good at working against the goal of reaching a stable release.
Having multiple identities erodes trust, and Debian relies on its developers being able to be trusted.
<dilinger> SANE is not.
The injection of an employer-employee relationship in Debian is not something I think is in the best interest of the project.
<elfez> Good quote: I like the story about the engineers who gave their manager
five copies of the Mythical Man Month so he could read it quicker.
* psn decides not to inquire about gw280's love life <gw280> I have no love life <gw280> I'm a KDE developer <gw280> the closest thing I have to a love life is sleeping with Konqi <lamby> I always look in on this channel at the wrong moments.
<ari> I score everyone with an SPF record as a spammer <ari> and domainkeys <ari> more like donkeys
It's a matter of fact that you can't release a stable Debian-grade release every 6 months.
I was under the impression that before 2.0, Debian wasn't released as binaries yet, only source packages and the source code to the utilities needed to build the packages.
Debian has always been an organisation of enthusiastic amateurs.
If I don't install Debian on this, it will feel like a brick to me anyway!
I don't think Nexenta is ready to be included right now, but with the time things take in Debian, we could just as well start looking at technical problems now.
-!- Guest5 is now known as weasel -!- weasel is now known as Guest15 -!- Guest9 is now known as Ganneff -!- Ganneff is now known as Guest16
I remember a time when Debian was like a family, maybe it is more so now just a dysfunctional one.
<Yoe> why oh why does firefox need to be such a resource hog? <ari> because it's C++ <Yoe> that's not a good reason
I wish hurd was purged from unstable on ftp.*.debian.org since it would stop Hurd's build status from influencing the BTS versioning code.
<st_u> You know how svenl is crazy? <st_u> I'm crazy too, but in a less destructive way.
<Kinnison> XML is like violence. If it doesn't work, add MORE!
<ifvoid> why is is that I can't leave for a few days without finding a
huge flame in my -private mailbox?
<weasel> ifvoid: you would stop us with words of reason
<weasel> ifvoid: it's no fun having a flamewar then, so we wait
<weasel> it's like waiting for your parents to leave for vacation
when you want to throw a party
Never underestimate the power of Debian trolls.
The Debian Project team is not simply a team anymore - it is a society.
P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing
the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better.
I want to hear something like "It's GPL" or "It's in Debian."
<madduck> it's final, git is the only worthwhile VCS <madduck> no other VCS allows you to say witty stuff like "git the code" <ari> git in the car <madduck> and pop the trunk <madduck> fits debian workflow perfectly, you see?
* madduck stares at bandwidthcalc
<madduck> who the heck sponsored this? A Gtk calculator that cannot
do anything but multiply by powers of 1024 and divide?
Debian systems, as it stands, are at a high risk of being broken when many third-party debs are installed on them. Especialy if those debs were built on an Ubuntu system.
<JD> argh java burns
<JD> it burns us
<fledermaus> You can't just burn in flames. You need to instantiate an
OxygenStream then on top of that a BufferedOxygenConsumer then give
that as parameters to a FlameProducerConsumerFactoryQueue.
The more I see arguments in favor of DM [Debian Maintainer] the more it's about introverted geeks, and uncoordinated work.
The GR is needed to avoid James using his DSA privileges to revert and block the changes and to avoid Joerg using his DAM privileges to blacklist anyone who participates in the queue from joining Debian in future.
Debian can only make this worse, through any action happening in any official capacity, in any direction.
If you do not agree with him just flame him from your blog in the fine tradition of Planet Debian.
<holst> how do i use this package? <holst> muttprint - Pretty printing of mails <holst> never mind forgot im using debian <holst> /usr/share/*/doc
3h32m and 47GB of extracted files later, I now have the results and there is no MD5 collision in the Debian archive.
Currently about 99.5% of all incoming mail to lists.debian.org is discarded before it gets delivered.
But we're Debian. We try anyway. And we try to do it the best way possible, not just acceptable.
This is an issue but, I guess, not a Debian issue.
<Jon> Oh Christ I have to edit a csh script written in 1993 <broonie> Jon: Does rm qualify as an editor?
I think Debian should secure itself a revenue stream by patenting this sophisticated text compression algorithm.
<WombleToo> iSCSI over avian carrier! <Noodles> Do it, dude. <WombleToo> I think it would take all day just to log in <murb> i think the last hardware iscsi target i played with was hamster powered.
<nenolod> There needs to be an 'extras' repo that
isn't supported by security team then.
<Lo-lan-do> We have it already. It's called Ubuntu.
Debian is called the universal OS, not the drug free OS.
Let me get this straight. The argument is that since it is hard to remove people for cause in Debian, let us just start removing people at random, even if they are performing well, and maybe, sometime, somehow, that change may lead to an improvement?
The code behind times.debian.net is more a "proof of concept" than a real solution.
<pusling> When was apt-get moo implemented? <Corsac> A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away
When someone tells you "Debian policy sucks, my hack rules", the answer "Don't upload to Debian, then" is perfectly legitimate.
If you don't understand the way release management actually works (and it does work), please just don't answer on mail to debian-release.
The world does not spin around Debian.
<lucas> I tried to delay Ubuntu releases at some point,
but they don't really care about FTBFS.
It might help your motivation slightly to think of stable as a sub-par and largely irrelevant derived distribution bolted onto the side of the real Debian.
If the point release is delayed so long that there's a new full release out before it's done, then *no one* gets the benefit of being able to install a supported Debian release on hardware that wasn't supported before.
Debian's freeze sounds like a technical hack to address a social problem, and that disturbs me a bit.
People in LWN are going batshit over Debian having code names for releases. They think it is juvenile.
Meanwhile, Rockbox has performed a valuable service for Debian developers who would otherwise have to struggle to find a project with longer release cycles than their own.
<jaldhar> Remind them Linux has a GUI now. Many people still don't know that <weasel> Linux has a GUI!?
Please either catch up or stop maintaing packages in Debian.
Debian is violating the DFSG by using a non-DFSG license for its website.
I believe that gNewSense is a great idea, since it tends to keep far from Debian the worst nutcases.
<waldi> madwifi? kernel-package? <HE> grammar? verbs? <waldi> no
<Bryce1> my knoppix install is stuck on 76% <Bryce1> any suggestions?
If Debian or whoever else have these concernes and want to rip the firmware out, it is one hundred percent their problem to patch things out of the kernel tree they use.
<dholbach> Last day of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek starting in
34 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom on irc.feenode.net
* ScottK hands dholbach an "r".
<Rhonda> Are they fundraising again?
<meebey> weasel: and honestly 50mb is pretty much for a small application <weasel> no kidding
<Lo-lan-do> Hm. My Bitlbee IRC-to-IM gateway tells me someone's been idle for 366012:29:54 <Lo-lan-do> I'm positive that person wasn't born at that time.
<zack> can you please mail me about it, I guess it'll be quicker than completing the syn/ack cycle... <daemonkeeper> RST <murb> FIN <daemonkeeper> ACK, FIN <bremner> ACK PTHHHK! <paultag> RST <daemonkeeper> You all badly lack TCP-fu :p <algernon> they're just cisco routers facing a SACK <paultag> CRACK <bremner> TCP? I thought this was Bill the Cat.
Debian had multiple choices for init scripts for a long time (file-rc versus sysv-rc). I don't think there's any good reason to throw that out the window.
Forks are not the efficient way to work with Debian.
* GyrosGeier lernte gerade: mit systemd muss das initramfs /usr mounten <GyrosGeier> Alles andere ist unsupported und wird durch rescue Shell bestraft
least-favourite GUI toolkit rolled into one, right? ;P
<Slimer> Joey: mv work /somebody_else;cp /bank/money /bank/accounts/Slimer <Culus> Joey2 = new Debianite(Joey);
Martin Schulze schrieb am 30. Mai 1998: > Oh dear... Well, it's late so just a short note, please take > a look at http://www.debian.org/ . Debian is Debian GNU/Linux > which is the one an only 100% free Linux distribution. If you > have further questions don't hesitate to contact me. Du hast »Am Anfang war das Wort, und das Wort war bei Gott und Gott war das Wort« deutlich verständlicher geschrieben :-)))
<Domix> seen Joey <dpkg> Joey is Labor, and Labor is on the channel right now!
<liiwi> Joey: Und ich habe Sauerkraut in meine Lederhosen.
<netgod> I did a who *.de <netgod> Obviously that isn't powerful enough to find all the Joeys
<netgod> they spelled "Gnu" wrong :-) <james> and you spelt spelt wrong ;-P
* Über OOP
<tharg> Es macht den code häßlich.
<tharg> template<typename T>class Foo : virtual protected Bar { virtual const T& Baz() const = 0; }
<tharg> Is' doch grottenhäßlich, oder nech? ,)
<tharg> Und OOP in Perl is soo langsam, daß man den Bits beim wandern
zugucken kann... gleiches gilt für Java...
Und, [Umstieg] von SuSE auf Debian, das war schon ein Sprung ins Eis-meer.. <g>
Unix besteht nur aus Workarounds (außer ein paar atomaren Dingen, auf denen die Workarounds basieren) (:
<ingolfo> Kaum macht mans richtig und schon gehts! ;)
<Mig-O> Hat Joey Debian-Linux auf PowerPC's portiert? <Mig-O> http://www.infodrom.north.de/Infodrom/tervola.html <Mig-O> http://www.debian.de/ports/powerpc/ <Mig-O> Der Mann flößt mir langsam Angst ein.
Es ist einfach traurig, wenn man den NT-Experten ihr NT erklären muß... Nur weil der BDC in Wirklichkeit ein Samba ist, muß er sich doch nicht anders verhalten. Nagut: schneller ist er, aber sonst?
* Joey will auch einen Clon! <johns> Joey: Gene einschicken, ausbrüten, fertig ist der Clon
<Ref|ex> Geht 'n Mantafahrer zum Manta-Treffen.
Fragt: Fährt hier wer Manta
MTA-Wahl... erinnert so an Herzblatt:
Ist es MTA 1: Der mit der Fledermaus und dem dicken Buch
oder MTA 2: Der mit der Kuh und dem fiesen VERP
oder MTA 3...
Bei der SuSE-Installation muß man vor allem eins beachten... Man muß eine CD mit der Aufschrift 'Debian' verwenden... Die von SuSE vergessen die hin- und wieder mitzuliefern....
* ingolfo hat vorgeschlagen einen Y2k-Beauftragten aufs Dach zu positionieren ... mit nem Feldstecher ... er soll den Himmel nach evtl. Racketen Ausschau halten ... ggf. können wir uns das Runterfahren dann sparen
Net wennst zuviel versch. Plattformen herumstehen hast, Open für Paranoide und Free für den Wald- und Wiesen BSD'ler.
Ich druck mir jede Webpage immer aus bevor ich sie lese... Und zu den GIF-Animationen werden automatisch Daumenkinos erstellt
* JoeyZ kennt biff nicht. <JoeyZ> biff-baff
Joey, ich hasse Dich, jetzt weiß ich nicht mehr was ich wollte *hmpf*
<lolo-> Blinder Aktionismus <lolo-> Oh - sorry :) <Blinder> hehe *patsch*
<fizzblizz> Muß auch mal schlafen zwischendurch <nobse> <7of9>Schlaf ist irrelevant</7of9>
> > Wer frißt meine E-Mehls ??? > > Mmmmhhh, lecker.... Deine Emails sind die besten. :-))
* lolo ist gewöhnt daß Software das tut, was ICH ihr sage <Joey> Offenbar bist Du Freie Software gewohnt.
<ingolfo> Mein Multitasking ist kaputt...
Ich habe wieder den Tee vergessen :)
<Joey> Manno!
<Joey> Hier trudeln die Mails mal wieder schneller ein
als ich sie beantworten kann :(
<ref-> Das kommt, weil du so langsam tippst *duck*
ingolfo hört max. abends ne halbe Stunde MDR-Info (Nachrichtenradio)... Damit ist mein Input mit weltlichen Dingen ausgelastet.
* Spacewusl denkt . o O (auch ein Blinder findet mal einen Channel *g*)
* Joey wirft Blinder einen Sack Kommas zu <Joey> Verteil die mal sinnvoll
<shorty> oxygene: Hm, noch keinen Kaffee getrunken oder ist Dein
Satzparser heute morgen noch nicht vollständig aktiv? :)
Zufällig jemand hier, der auch da ist?
<ref> "Nein, nicht blau, sondern deop macht glücklich, meine Damen und Herren" <ref> Völlig neue Erkenntnisse
<_shorty> Hm, keiner hier, der mir mal flott einen Tip geben kann? <ref-> shorty: Zu was? Ungarisch-bulgarischen halb-gerollten Rouladen?
<Zugschlus> Wozu um Himmels Willen braucht man zwölf Screens? <Joey> Zug: Weil 10 zuwenig sind?
* forcer kennt jemand, der hat regelmäßig auf seinem 22" monitor 32 Desktops, mit jeweils mehreren xterms, in jedem einen Screen, und in den Screens jeweils mehrere Emacsen...
<forcer> alt-Fx wechselt virtual desktops, ctrl-Fx wechselt screen terms, alt-<zahl> wechselt emacs buffers <forcer> man muß nur wissen wie *8)
<sanddorn> lolo: Und was is mit deinen technikern? <l0l0> sanddorn: sind nervig
<Joey> Was ist denn yamm? <ij> Joey: yet another mail manager <ij> was ist denn yaam? <Joey> Yet another addres manager <ij> another product of Yet Another Software Inc...
* Joey hat jetzt doch ein 46-Zeichen-Perlie genommen. <teite> 46 zeichen? ui ist das lang :)
<_crash> Wie wärs mit ner tüte-chips.deb ? <wease|> _crash: s/-chips// :)
<Joey> Ich sagte ja auch, rechte Taste auf dem Panel <Joey> Ok, sagte ich nicht, dachte ich aber...
<DonManolo> Hat jemand ne Ahnung wie ich die Maus auf Linkshänder umstelle? <ingolfo> DonManolo: einfach den Bildschirm um 180 Grad drehen
<zorbas> Joey0815: thx! * zorbas ist noch etwas suse
<Stinkfish> MTA? Mittel Teutonischer Affe ?
Nutzt Du Win9x, belächeln Dich die WinNT-Helden, benutzt Du NT belächelt, Dich die Linux-Front. Benutzt Du SuSE, belächeln Dich die Debian Helden, benutzt Du Debian, belächeln Dich die Selbstkompilierer, die wiederum von den Unix-Helden belächelt werden.
*** PUBLIC flooding detected from forcerAFK <Joey> Oh nein! Ein Logfile-Leser
<Blinder> Ich dachte ich krieg das gratis, weil ich so schön bin?
<forcer> hsarc_: Du sollst den Source *lesbar* machen,
nicht 1000 weitere Möglichkeiten finden, das
gleiche gleich unlesbar zu machen.
<Acki> Und OSPF funktioniert, was soll es sonst tun? Kaffe kochen?
* Joey hat 1 Buch über Theoretische Informatik gelesen, da waren 2 Kapitel den Viren, ihrer Funktionsweise und ihrem Aufbau gewidmet. <Joey> Der Autor muß wohl Langeweile bei dem ganzen Formalkram bekommen haben...
<ref> Joey is ne graue Maus... *duck*
Was bei Debian frozen genannt wird, ist deutlich stabiler als das, was bei einigen Distributionen als Release verkauft wird ;-)
Überleg mal, weshalb es deutlich mehr Leute gibt, die von einer anderen Distribution zu Debian wechseln, und kaum Leute, die von Debian zu einer anderen wechseln.
<erikyyy> Außerdem lese ich gerade Genetic Algorithm Literatur <erikyyy> "Wir definieren den sexuellen Operator"
<Joey> So, dann mal weiter an meinem 'evil plan' arbeiten. <Joey> ash.de ist platt
<FastJack> MCSE? Minesweeper Consultant & Solitaire Expert?
<Joey> chibao, ok, dann habe ich Dich vor Augen. <chibao> Joey: dann siehst du ja nix mehr :-))
<blupingu> Nen IRC Client in ksh-Skripten <blupingu> Leute haben zuviel Zeit
ref- sucht ne gute limits.conf - hat da wer was? <bernd[tm]> ref: ja nolimits.conf
* ingolfo mag kwrite zum Programmieren
Da die Reichweite ursprünglich auf Europa beschränkt war, sich mittlerweile jedoch auf Europa ausgeweitet hat
<Blinder> Joey ist immer der Obermaker <Blinder> Das war nie anders *eg*
<Blinder> so <Blinder> re <Blinder> also
* Bluehorn schreibt jetzt kurz gs neu - es reicht ;)
* Joey ist immer noch unglücklich mit seinen Hurenkindern
<_ice> okokok. Ist ja gut. Ich werde keine rhetorischen Fragen mehr im IRC verweden.
<teite> hmm, Netgravity Server <forcerUNI> teite: Das isn Server der Gravitität im Netz erzeugt, sonst wuerden die ganzen IP-Pakete wegfliegen....
<Getty> Habt ihr auch manchmal einen starken Drang, einen leeren
Workspace einfach mit Tasks zu füllen?....
<dr> -ENOBOCK auf -ENOCLUE ;)
<forcer> Soenke: Kein UNIX-Admin würde sich dabei erwischen
lassen, als root zu ircen. Das wäre zu peinlich.
<Joey> Das ist Hardware <Joey> Das ist nicht offen. <Joey> Das ist kagge!
<LGS> Blinder: Jaja, als ich noch in deinem Alter war,
dachte ich auch, ich müsse cool sein, gut daß ich
aus dem Alter raus bin...
<Rince> Ein Beamer wäre tödlich
<Rince> Da könnte man Leute ja aus dem Urlaub beamen
wenn sie gebraucht würden
<ref> Hmhm. irgendwie paßt hier irgendwas nicht. <ref> Naja, ich mach den Windows-Trick <ref> Erstmal updaten
<Joey> Nobse: hihi, hab nur die Manpage gelesen :) <nobse> Joey: grmpf... ;) * nobse hat den Wink aber verstanden...
<forcer> Du regst dich immernoch auf.
<forcer> Ich schließe daraus daß, Du ein Troll bist,
und ich füttere keine Trolls.
<forcer> Guten Tag.
Betten für Debian widersprechen dem ersten Knopperschen Axiom.
<nobse> hm... der Ofen ist von meiner Schwester belegt :(
<eis> mrvn: sex hilft auch beim lernen
<cw81> Ist ja interessant: Die beiden Elizas haben anscheinend
etwas interessantes gefunden: jetzt reden sie nur noch
über ihre Mütter und AI ;-)
Der Lambda-Kalkül ist für Hacker so etwas wie das, was für Jedis "Die Macht" darstellt. Das, worauf man zurückgreift, wenn man ganz abartig schwierige Dinge erledigen muß.
<Bluehorn> Ich glaube es nicht. Hier werden gerade die Stühle weggeholt. <Bluehorn> Die waren gemietet - bis gestern. Genial. Ein Büro ohne Stühle.
Debian == Hausbesetzer-Linux. :-)
Bei Debian ist vieles irgendwie anders als bei sonstigen Linux-Systemen.[...]
<shorty_> Finger weg von INN, damit kann man sich,
schneller als einem lieb ist, in den Fuß schießen.
<Joey> Shorty klingt so, als könne er die Löcher in
seinen Füßen nicht mehr zählen...
Und jetzt ist Ruhe, ihr lenkt mich ab.
Ok, dann darf ich also weiter unkonstruktiv dumme Kommentare von mir geben und muß nichts sinnvolles dazu sagen. Das kommt mir durchaus entgegen.
<Joho> das sagt mir mein x grad: <Joho> Fatal server error: could not open default font 'fixed' <Joho> Welcher Font ist das bzw. in welchem Package ist der? <Joey> . o O ( Ob er mich haut, wenn ich ihm sage, daß es der 'fixed' font ist? )
<Joey> Weasel: schreib mal da hinein, daß ich im IRC immer
so schroff bin und nur auf die Türen zeige, öffnen
und durchgehen müssen die Leute schon selbst. Und
wenn sie nicht tun, was ich ihnen sage, endet mein
Support an der Stelle.
<Nick`> Welche ist besser Binary oder Source ? <_eis> Die CPU mag Binaries lieber, Joey Source. :-)
Toerli ist hier im Channel für die Eigentoerli zuständig...
Wer mit Feuer nicht umgehen kann, sollte damit nicht spielen.
1. Hast Du noch nicht genug Wissen.
2. Hast Du einen Tip von mir bekommen.
Nicht-Befolgung resultiert im Ende des User-Supports.
3. Bist Du nicht in der Lage, soviel Transferdenken zu entwickeln,
daß Du Dir eine x-beliebige Bootdisk vornimmst.
4. Ist mir das einfach zu doof!
<stony[tm]> tcp-wrapper == Entsafter oder wie?
* Bluehorn findet mathematische Logik total unlogisch.
Mit Debian macht die Arbeit einfach mehr Sinn.
<Alfie> Führt Dich eigentlich Deine Mama noch auf die Toilette?
Debian ist nicht an der Börse, sondern auf dem Computer.
<x-tal> Joey: Wenn du sie kennst, dann können sie schon
mehr als wie ich brauche ;)
<Molle> Mit Zeigern schreiben is wie mit LEGO bauen.
Ich habe mir erlaubt, von Debian auf 'das sinnvolle System'[tm] zu verallgemeinern
<weaselTM> Perl ist Das Licht[TM]
*** Mode change "+b schnupfen!schnupfen@*schnupfen.de" on channel #debian.de by stony
<Getty> puffy erklärt Joey was... <Getty> Ich bin falsch, wo ist der echte puffy? Wo der echte Joey?
* x-tal denkt docu => gescheit, ansonsten ist das nur ne Folge von Buchstaben
* weasel hortet brauchbare info und sagt dann immer 'ich habs gewußt', 'ich hätts euch gleich sagen können'
<Joey> Ich nix Boss, ich bloß Oberdepp.
<tboc> Aber ich würd mich ja kaputtlachen, wenn die ganzen
Kiddies die alle ein Handy haben müssen, sobald sie
kaum sprechen können, durch diese 'Handy-Attacken'
ihr Spielzeug erstmal nicht benutzen können :)
Eine Brücke ist ein Metall-Beton-Konstrukt, mit dessen Hilfe eine Straße über ein "Hindernis" geführt werden kann. Netter Nebeneffekt: steht (oder liegt) man drunter, bleibt man auch bei Regen trocken.
* ij würde sich nämlich ansonsten schonmal Taktstock und Frack zulegen, um das Konzert der Warnpiepser dirigieren zu können.
ROCK Linux ist eine neu entwickelte Linux Distribution, komplett unter GPL mit sehr radikalen konzepten und extrem aktuell. Debian meets OpenBSD, für Pittbull-Wurst-Wegnehmer.
Debian meets OpenBSD, für Pittbull-Wurst-Wegnehmer.
<grisu> Joey: Kann einen richtig schön down bringen...
<weasel> ICQ ist nett. Ist so das IRC der armen Leute
<weasel> AAAAAAAAA
<weasel> Da fragt man jemanden im ICQ, wie's geht und dann
fängt sie an zu erzählen, daß ihr Freund Schluß
gemacht hat und hört gar nicht mehr auf.
<weasel> Merke: ICQ ist böse
* nobse stellt sich das grade vor... 3 Joeys... <nobse> *waaaah*
<Rjinswand> Schlaf? Was das? <Joey> suspend-to-bed
<case> Woglinde: Verrat's nicht weiter: aber im RL ist LGS ganz nett.. <case> Hm. <case> Sie wird mich töten..
<puffy> Joey: bimboze <--- wat dat denn? <oxygene> puffy: s/b/w/ s/b/d/ s/ze/ws/
<redrunner> Gromitt: dannach befriedige ich Dich gleich <redrunner> Aeeehhh <redrunner> Ihr wisst wie's gmeint ist.
Ja, ich gestehe, ich bin ein Tankstelleneinkäufer
<sds_> *grummel* Zeilenfakire.. alles Zeilenfakire...
* FastJack war gestern auch draußen. Coole Grafik, aber das Konzept der frischen Luft muß mir noch jemand erklären.
<Getty> Los, belustigt mich!
<McKnight> Getty: Wir belustigen uns... Über Dich... :-)
<Joey> Getty, kannst Du mit CVS umgehen oder tust Du nur so? <Getty> Joey: ich tu so ;) bzw. ich fang gerade an, das zu kapieren.
* Zomb überlegt mal wieder, /etc/init.d/autoexec-bat vorzuschlagen...
<FastJack> Joey: fehlt nur noch, daß er zu Dir "Mama" sagt.
<FastJack> .oO( Joey ist die Channel-Mama? )
* noshadow .oO( Die wollen wirklich nur die Stats füllen )
<Getty> Du redest mit zwei hardcore IRC-Junks... und Du willst uns /help anbieten oder was?
<Getty> Joey: Du warst das erste, was mit mir gesprochen hat, auf nem Linux-Channel, und das ist schon... 6-7 Jahre her.
<wintermut> Joey, Ich will keine PAM-Module programmieren nur weil irgendwelche Leute die Userdaten vom LDAP in eine Oracle-Datenbank verschoben haben.
<mrvn> AAARRRGGGHHHH, der online Pizzadienst ist offline. <mrvn> Hilfe, ich verhungere.
<weasel> Hier ist kein Wetter. <weasel> Rolläden sind noch herunten.
<Joey> weasel: Willkommen in der Wirklichkeit. * weasel will wieder zurück
Hmm.... #debian.de oder #bande.die? Oder #band.idee? Oder #bade.neid? Oder #bad.ideen?
<CHS> Hat jemand bitte mal ne URL, wo man Aktienkurse sieht? <Joey> Nimm 1 Stift und zeichne eine Linie von oben nach unten.
<Alfie> /bin/laden: open(/dev/plane) received SIGKILL
<Nash> Hat jemand Erfahrungen mit Arkeia? <teeboitel> Ist die hübsch? <andreas80> teeboitel: Ja nach einem System-Crash... <teeboitel> Ich mag keine Abstürze mit Schlampen...
<Alfie> Also - eins sag ich euch: Wenn ihr auf einer
64MB-Maschine ein dist-upgrade macht, gehts
inzwischen ins Kino, Duschen, in den Zoo -
eventuell noch Eisessen, dann sollte das fertig sein.
<weasel> Joey: ach ja, ich erinnere mich: Du bloß Oberdepp.
<case> *argh* Ihr Akku ist nun voll aufgeladen.. <case> Windows wird noch meinen Tod verursachen..
* Alfie gibts auf und wirft das Handtuch. * Alfie setzt sich aufs Handtuch drauf. <Alfie> Ich warte jetzt, bis mich die Vogonen hochbeamen.
* Joey fällt halbtot um <waldi> Joey: Warum das? <Joey> Weil ich mal wieder einem Phantomfehler hinterherjage. <forcer> Joey: naja, in Zukunft machst Du besser gleich 'ne Rasterfahndung.
<Zomb> Joey == Post-Moderner Prozeß-Scheduler?
<yao> Ich have mich schon wundgegoogled.
<Alfie> Getty: Du enwickelst Dich wirklich zum Spießer.
<Zomb> Wer schleimen will, wird gekickt und gebannt. Keine Gnade. <Joey> Wenn Du Alfie übertriffst, bekommst Du den Spitznamen ZAlfie...
<Getty> Alfie: Dann zeig Du mir, daß Du nicht nur blöde
Kommentare über mich reißen kannst.
<poedi|wrk> 6h Sendmail-Source verderben echt jeden Programmierstil...
<Joey> Das gibt Minuspunkte! <Joey> Und nicht zu wenig! <weaselTM> Getty: Jetzt hast Du 10 Minuspunkte mehr. Macht dann in der Summe 2342144.
<Getty> weasel: Du weißt garnix, oder? <weasel> Getty: Ich weiß alles.
<pre_> In den Knast will auch keiner. <pre_> Aber voll sind sie alle.
<Bart> Ich habe hier 'nen Router mit Debian sid und ISDN-Karte AVM
Fritz Card... Jetzt habe ich aber T-DSL bekommen und mache
die Fritz Card PCI raus. Auf den Steckplatzt kommt dann
die Netzwerkkarte für T-DSL... Naja würdet ihr alles neu
aufsetzen und denn Rechner plattmachen oder einfach alles
ISDN-Zeugs deinstallieren und dann alles für T-DSL
einstellen?
<jef> Bart: Glühbirne kaputt. Tauschen oder neues Haus bauen?
* Joey denkt, Bluehorn is echt die nächsten zwei Stunden beschäftigt...
<Joey> Bluehorn: Tip: zieh Dir die Dateien, installier sie Dir lokal
und pack einen passenden fortune-call ins .bashrc.
<Bluehorn> Wozu? Dann würde ich mich nur noch ein- und ausloggen...
* Joey schlägt die Hände über'm Kopf zusammen.
Bei "/exec -o banner Linux rulez" wird bestimmt wegen flood gekickt oder?
Was es nicht als Debian-Paket gibt, das existiert nicht.
Hey Nachbar, hast Du noch sowas wie Disketten? Disketten? Wozu brauchst'n sowas? Ach weißt, ich installier ein veraltetes Betriebssystem, nennt sich Debian.
<kw> Getty: Soll ich da was mitbringen? <Getty> kw: Alles an Drogen, was Du mitnehmen kannst.
<Getty> x-tal: Also ist Perl eine Programmiersprache? <Getty> x-tal: Was ist Interpretersprache?
<Getty> Also wir kommen hier echt zu keinem Ergebniss <Getty> scw: Sag Deinem Lehrer, er hat ein Definitionsvakuum erzeugt ;)
Debian-Packete geben erst dann wirklich Sinn, wenn die so statisch sind, daß sie Versionsnummern bekommen können.
* shagrath weiß nicht, was Induktion ist. * weasel beneidet shagrath
<ij> 29538 buildd 19 19 4984 4980 1340 R N 1584 7.8 16.1 0:09 emulator.exe <ij> Oeh? <ij> Was baut der denn da mit nem exe?
Watt denn - kudzu gibt's jetzt auch für Debian? Ich fühl mich ja gleich wieder wie bei RedHat...
<kw> jjFux will ne ki in perl bauen, die selbständig erkennt was gut und böse ist. <Joey> kw: Ist doch ganz einfach. <Joey> Perl ist gut, Python ist böse.
<x-tal> Aarg: no space left on device <falky> x-tal: kein Weltraum links vom Gerät?
* Lambder hat Schnee <Feik> Lambder: War Christoph Daum da?
<mrvn> Skydiver: Heut ist der 1.13.2001 und wir haben immer noch DM.
Die 3 F's fon Debian: Find the bug, Fix the bug, Forward to maintainer
Lustig ist (selbst erlebt), daß Oracle zwar für SuSE zertifiziert ist (und darum wollen die Manager-Deppen das eben haben), aber sich nicht out of the box mit SuSE installieren läßt, weil die Libc nicht paßt. Mit Debian (nicht zertifiziert) kein Problem.
Ok, da steckt auch nicht mehr Arbeit für mich hinter? Dann bin ich's doch.
<shorty> Fuchur: Finger weg von INN, damit kannn man sich schneller als
einem lieb ist in den Fuß schießen.
<shorty> Fuchur: Vertraue mir.
<Joey> Hmm, shorty klingt so als könne er die Löcher in seinen Füßen
nicht mehr zählen...
<Bluehorn> Joey: Unsere Entwickler haben zu wenig Rückrat :(
* ij muß mal alle seine Rechner in ein VPN bringen... Nun dümpelt in Rostock ein Rechner mit dem hängenden NFS rum, weil der Laptop, wo ich das Verzeichnis per NFS freigegeben hatte, nun in Osnabrück steht.
<ij> cteg: wäre HH keine Weltstadt, hätte es dort kein IRC... q.e.d ;)
Noch ein paar Sekunden und mein Debian ist wieder vollständig unstable.
* ij findet die orig-tarballs von debian faszinativ besser als freshmeat oder sourceforge, wenn ich 'nen original Source brauche...
* wolfie ponders how many debianites it takes to screw in a lightbulb
<Viiru> wolfie: Somewhere around 600? One screw's the bulb, and the rest
flames him for doing it wrong.
<part> wolfie: is the bulb free software?
<Tv> Can we vote on whether to screw it or not?
<cteg> Alfie: Es heißt aber "der" Admin. Ein Alptraum für Alice. <Alfie> cteg: Alice ist ein Alptraum an sich.
So langsam erschließt sich mir das ganze Ausmaß der Debian-Perfektion.
As none of you know, I'm working on building a Debian CD intended for the norwegian schools.
* Gromitt_ is now known as Gromitt <Getty> Oh Scheiße, Gromitt wird wach. <Getty> Da hab ich jetzt soviele Lines gemacht in den letzten 24 Std. <Getty> Und jetzt kommt der wieder ;)
Stabile Debian-Versionen 3.0 und 2.2r6 nähern sich.
<boitl> Falky, haben Informatiker immer Unordung?
Das würde einniges bei mir hier erklären.
<falky> boitl: Naja, erfahrungsgemäß ja.
<Acid6uru> wir kämpfen nicht gegen goldene Kälber,
wir bemitleiden Leute mit grünen Chamäleons.
<hightower> Baaaaaaah <hightower> Is KDE3 schnell <hightower> *zieh den Hut* <Zomb> hightower: Sarkasmus? <hightower> Zomb: im Vergleich zu Windowmaker PURER Sarkasmus, im Vergleich zu KDE2 ist es wirklich so
-!- mode/#debian.de [+oo sesom XSnackWRK] by Alfie * Alfie . o O ( Nein, ich bin nicht da - bitte nicht anquatschen ;) )
<Joey> Getty: Dein LAG kommt meinem recht nahe... Das sollte Dich nachdenklich stimmen :) <ref> bei Joey is es die leitung, bei getty das hirn... ;-)
<schneckal> hat einer von euch schon bind9 installiert? <_eis> das neue root kit? :->
<ij> manchmal frage ich mich, ob es den MicroSoft Managern nicht peinlich ist, so einen Unsinn zu erzählen... aber offenbar nicht.
* ij hat überall wo er hin kommt Netz... Wo kein Netz ist, geht er nicht hin. ganz einfach :)
<mrvn> Grummel, er hat ne Platte nicht erkannt. Schon wieder reboot. *** mrvn (~mrvn@pD9519FC4.dip.t-dialin.net) has left channel #debian.de (grummel) <formorer> Aber erst ins irc gehen, bevor er merkt, daß die Platte nicht erkannt wurde. <formorer> Das ist ECHTE Sucht!
<schorsch> Zomb: Die Manpage ist vom Nov. 1993... Ob das noch so aktuell ist? <Zomb> schorsch: Daran siehst Du, wie lange gute Konzepte halten.
Der schwierigste Teil bei der Debian-Installation ist immer, sich einen Namen für den Rechner auszudenken. *grübel*
Sogar Debian-Benutzer brauchen ab und zu ein bisschen eigenes Hirn.
<mrvn> Da geht ja gar kein gnutella oder Donkey oder Napster anständig. <mrvn> Das spart ja richtig Bandbreite.
<Zugschlus> Klasse. <Zugschlus> Im Fernsehen läuft der 20th Century Fox Trailer, das Telefon klingelt. Mutter dran. <Zugschlus> *kopfschüttel* <Zugschlus> Eltern. Rotten Timing in Perfektion.
*** Topic for #debian.de: nicht fragen, google lernen.
<Tolimar> Ich hänge alte CDs immer an die Wand. Ist billiger als Spiegelkacheln.
<formorer> noclue: bashrc ist wesentlich klüger <formorer> noclue: falls du mal die shell wechselst
Gerade in den LUGs gibt es immer Leute, die Kontakte hierhin und dahin haben - zwei zu Suse, einer zu Redhat, ein dritter zur Presse, ein vierter ist vielleicht Debian-Maintainer etc.
Aus gut unterrichteter Quelle aus dem Debian-Team verlautete, daß die langerwartete Version 3.0 "Woody" der beliebten Distribution Debian GNU/Linux endlich freigegeben wird.
<binarix> Gleich mal ein RIESEN Dankeschoen an Dich, mrvn <binarix> Hätte kaum noch gedacht, daß es so geduldige Menschen gibt ;) <mrvn> Hast Glück das die CPU hier busy ist
<rathmanj> och naja, es gibt vieles, was mit mysql nicht geht, mit oracle aber schon <ij> mysql ist ja auch kein DBMS <ij> es ist irgendwas, was so riecht wie SQL, es aber nicht ist
<falky> *patsch* was bin ich bloed
sgybas: Fehlt da nicht S/390 bzw. zSeries? Wie sieht es damit aus? mgs: Dafür nimmt man dann das gute Debian :-)))
wesad: wann wird ein arabische Linux Version geben?
Joey: Wenn ausreichend arabisch sprechende Personen die
übersetzungen in Debian einfließen lassen :-)
Du weißt doch, jedesmal wenn Debian rebootet wird, gibts mal nen neues Release.
<cite> Was ist denn eigentlich mit dem FeFe in letzter Zeit? Hat der
i'ne Debian-CD aufn Kopf gekriegt? Der lästert ja _überall_ rum!
<HAL-9000> cite: FeFe geht auf alles los, was nicht auf seinem Mist gewachsen ist.
<Salz> Hm, wenn ich ein kg Glas und ein kg Blei vom schiefen Turm
in Pisa schmeiße, ist beides gleich schnell unten...
<cstipsm> Was ist ein eggdrop? <boitl> Das Gegenteil von einer Unterhose (eierhalter)
<cstipsm> modules: Vielleicht Partitionstabelle oder so kapuut <cstipsm> s/ut/tt <yath> cstipsm: kapttt? <Hopser> yath: du solltest regexp können ;) <yath> Hopser: achso. ich hab mich verlesen :)
<weasel> Alfie: btw, joey hat eine debian-channel-cvs@lists.infodrom.org liste gemacht
<florz> weasel: Hu? Die Dialoge hier werden jetzt im CVS entwickelt?
Naja, kann der Qualität nur zuträglich sein 8->
Unter 'akademischem Viertel' versteht man normalerweise eine Viertelstunde. Bei Debian ist es ein Vierteljahr.
<DerJoern> towo: Du sollst mich nicht mit Fakten verwirren.
/names #debian.de Pub: #debian.de Störte Joey weasel <Joey> Störte Joey weasel? <Joey> Oh mann... jetzt kann man schon Sätze aus den Nicklisten bilden...
<Joey> Ist ja auch für den Getty gedacht, für ssh gibt's issue.net <meebey> Joey: hhmm mal checken <Getty> ? <meebey> Getty: lol <Joey> ARGS <Getty> ;)
<towo> bootdisk: Jeder hier im Channel ist bis zum
Beweis des Gegenteils ein Volltrottel.
<Bluehorn> Wie auch immer, Joey hat einen Kasper gefrühstückt :) <Bluehorn> Und die Wirkung hält noch an, also hat Joey spät gefrühstückt :)
* mrvn stellt tf ein Rednerpult hin und ein Glas Wasser und wartet auf den Punkt
<mottobug> Ich find das deprimierend, immer wenn ich glaube 'nen
Fehler glaube gefunden habe, war's doch nur meine Dummheit.
<mrvn> florz: 1. Whats is the meaning of life? <florz> 42 <florz> zu einfach <florz> kann man per brute force in < 1 min drauf kommen 8-)
<ij> ref: ich kann auch wieder gehen, aber dann müßt ihr mit den folgen leben. <ref> wasn für folgen? hemmungsloses awaysetzen und "ungefixte dingsbumse"?
<antifuchs> Alfie: Danke für Deine auf Unwissen und
Selbsthaß basierende Diagnose meiner Probleme.
<Tolimar> Toll, ein neuntes 'vielleicht' für einen Beamer für den LWE-Stand. <Tolimar> Nach Murphy haben wir dann entweder null oder 9 Beamer.
Wir hatten damals die Wahl die zwischen SuSE und Debian, RedHat wollten wir nicht. Und weil ich aus Erlangen und SuSE aus Nürnberg ist, haben wir Debian genommen.
Verzeichnisse ersuchen um Aufmerksamkeit.
<goodi> Gibt es bei lilo eine Fallback-Option? D.h. wenn Kernel
xyz nicht in 2min gebootet hat boote Kernel zyz?
<ij> Nein, das wäre ja so, als wenn man beim Kugelstoßen sagen würde:
Wenn die Kugel zu weit nach rechts fliegt, ändere die
Flugbahn mehr nach links.
<ij> Oh, gaim ist ja supi... Bietet Zugang über HTTP-Proxy an,
was aber in keinster Weise funktioniert. Sehr pfiffig.
<towo> The great exodus of #debian.de, dated 2002-07-28
*in Kalendar eintrag* ist ja wirklich lustig.
<case> Wemmer mich schon in ein fortune reinmacht, kann
man dann nicht meine Schreibweise beibehalten?
<case> Übles Gesocks..
<KeefR> und danke für Op *verbeug* <KeefR> op in #debian.de ist heute so wie ein Sechser im Lotto
KDE2 ist Beleidigung der User seitens der Debian-Freaks.
Debian legt sich selbst intern durch ständige Policy- -Querelen und -Streitereien, und extern durch die Horden der geifernden Extremisten-Anhänger lahm.
Debian kann man nicht ernst nehmen, weder als Distribution, noch als Community-Experiment. Mir tun nur die Leute leid, die da ihre Lebenszeit in dem Projekt verpulvert haben.
Debian kann man nicht ernst nehmen, weder als Distribution, noch als Community-Experiment.
<try> Kann es sein daß ftp.de.debian.org heut aweng spackt ? <Joey> Ja, ist auf Tauchgang.
* Alfie vermutet, daß Joey heute nacht endlich mal wieder geschlafen hat -- kein neues DSA *ducks*
<weaselTM> aber /me wollte ins Bett. Nacht <cw81> hehe, Morgen Channel, Nacht weasel ;)
<plaisthos> Oh Mann, es gibt Leute die sogar in Handschrift plenken.
<Joey> Du Newbie --> Module. Probier's mal mit "modprobe ne io=0xNNN irq=NN"
<yarihm> Manche sehen das ja auch so: Da wo Deutschland
am schönsten ist heißt es Schweiz.
<maxx> yarihm|WRK: Fränkische Schweiz?
<maxx> Hmmm alles gekillt und trotzdem kein Galeon/Mozilla mehr... * Alfie sings: "I think I am a loser, with nothing left to lose...."
<miro> $x = "The"; <miro> $$x = "Great"; <miro> $$$x = "Thing"; <miro> $$$$x = "About"; <miro> $$$$$x = "Variable"; <miro> $$$$$$x = "Variables"; <miro> $$$$$$$x = "Is"; <miro> $$$$$$$$x = "They"; <miro> $$$$$$$$$x = "Never"; <miro> $$$$$$$$$$x = "End!"; <miro> hihihihi
<Alfie> Ist ca. 100km südlich von München, bist Du mobil? <weasel> Alfie: ich hab ein Fahrrad mit einem Platten..
<weasel> 100km südlich von München müßte eigentlich eh schon im heiligen Land sein..
<Joey> Proof of concept - für mehr ist PHP eh nicht gut :-)
<Zomb> Ohje, kann mir jemand eine Lesebrille schenken, die
sämtliche Buzzwords von der ReiserFS-Seite filtert?
<FastJack> "so ne CC fehler"? Kannst du es noch etwas vager ausdrücken?
Ansonsten ist es keine Herausforderung für meine Kristallkugel.
Ich find das immer witzig wenn ich Security-Mails aus der Uni sehe: True64 Schwastelle, NT Schwachstelle, BSD Schwastelle, Debian fix für Schwachstelle... Ist Debian der einzige der Bugs fixt?
<weasel> ed : editor === csh : shell
<weasel> Joey: Beweisstück A: <weasel> Fri 17:40:04 <Joey> Arbeitet jemand von euch mit cacti? <weasel> Fri 17:40:12 <Joey> Ach... falscher irc... <weasel> Fri 17:40:20 <Joey> Nein, doch nicht... bin richtig hier :)
<Magic_C> azeem: naja, siehe www.gnome.org dann auf gnome2 start...
Man folge den Link für Debian... Dann folge man auf die Seite
für Woody und tätä man hat ein kaputtes Gnome, ganz einfach ;-)
<azeem> Joey[tm]: 21:13 * azeem thwaps Zomb- for leaking -private <Zomb-> [21:14:23] <azeem> Zomb-: ich erzähls nicht Joey ;) <azeem> oh! * azeem beisst sich auf die Zunge :) <Zomb-> ts,ts
<mellum> Welcher Arsch ist nochmal auf die Idee gekommen,
daß == höhere Präzedenz hat als ==?
<mellum> äh, als &
<plaisthos> fehler im programm <McClaude> wie könnte ich den beheben? <plaisthos> prpgram debuggen <McClaude> plaistos: wie stelle ich das an? <plaisthos> McClaude: hast du ne ahnung von programmieren? <McClaude> plaistos: ja schon, ich weiss was debuggen ist aber nicht was prpgram ist <plaisthos> prpgram ist programm mit schreibfehler
<azeem> Zomb: warst Du im Urlaub? <Zomb> azeem: eine Woche ohne Rechner <azeem> oh Gott :)
Weiß jemand was das soll?ich hab doch schon mal unter root ins IRC gejoind! (mit SuSE). Seit ich aber debian hab funktionierts nicht mehr!
<_crash> Was bitte soll ich mir unter so einer vorlesung vorstellen? <_crash> Physik für MTAs <_crash> VORL; 5 SWS; Fr, 13:00 - 17:00, HE
<skytee> ah, Joey. Der Mensch, der für die Fortune-Sprüche aus #Debian.DE verantwortlich is * skytee fällt in den Staub und erklärt sich für unwürdig
<no_maam> Joey: Nebenbei, Du bist in ner Umfrage auf DebianPlanet,
wer als nächstes interviewd werden soll, auf Platz 2
<Joey> no_maam: Huch? Wieso ich? score mich da mal down...
<mellum> Aber in O(|G|) gehts wohl auch nicht <Feik[tm]> |G|? <Feik[tm]> Ganten? Gnoten? ;) <mellum> Na, Graphgroesse halt <mellum> Ganten + Gnoten
<schoos> knopper: Wo hast du das denn gemacht? <knopper> schoos: Auf der Textkonsole. Im "Joey-Mode" sozusagen. ;-)
<Claus> Irgendwie steh' ich grad auf dem Schlauch... Wenn ich eine
primäre Partition auf /dev/hdb1 erstellt habe,
Was muß ich dann machen?
<Joey> Mir einen frischen Tee kochen.
Debian trennt strikt zwischen stable, unstable und testing releases, so daß Du entscheiden kannst, ob Du auf den Gegner, Deinen Fuß oder beide Füße gleichzeitig schießen willst.
<Joey> Wenn nein falsch ist, sage ich nicht nein, es sei denn,
ich weiß es nicht besser.
<fipss> Weiß jemand zufällig wie ich auf der Kommandozeile bei einem
Shell-Script ein Wort bold ausgeben kann?
<Re-EL> fipss: echo bold ;-)
<fipss> Re-EL: Wäre einen Versuch wert, aber wäre genauso nutzlos
mich vor meinem Bankautomaten zu stellen und "Geld" zu sagen
und er spuckt Geld aus.
<azeem> Ich faß' es nicht, ein Sec-Advisory != Joey!!
<mellum> Hat schon mal jemand ausgerechnet, wie wahrscheinlich es ist,
daß sich durch Quantenfluktuationen ein Abwasch von selbst abwäscht?
<mrvn> Jedes Atom kann sich nach rechts oder nach links bewegen.
Wenn sich genügend Atome vom Schmutz in eine Richtung bewegen, werden
die Teller sauber. Zähl die Atome und rechne die Gausskurve aus.
<jef> So, jetzt habe ich t1 übersetzt. Ein hello world Button..
3 MB Binary und eine Library-Liste, das einem schlecht wird.
<Zugschlus> fIPS: Wenn Du mich für so blöd hältst wie ich
aussehe dann hast du genau den richtigen vor Dir.
<LGS> Bluehorn: er [Joey] hat mich immer noch nicht erhoert
<Bluehorn> LGS: Inwiefern?
<LGS> Bluehorn: in meiner Liebe
<Bluehorn> LGS: Das delegiert er, dafür hat er keine Zeit ;)
<LGS> Bluehorn: Ich hoffe, er sucht sich 'nen netten Kerl aus,
dem er delegiert, meine Liebe zu erwidern
<Alfie> Ein Trackball ist auch nichts anderes als eine Maus, nur halt
aus Australien.
<Alfie> Dort steht alles auf dem Kopf.
Und Debian weiß auch nicht alles, sie haben nur für alles einen einfachen Perl-Fünfzeiler, der in vierfacher Indirektion die Ausgabe zweier AWK-Scripte durch /bin/sh in einer bestimmten undokumentierten Umgebung piped und die MD5-Checksumme der Fehlermeldungen in eine zentrale Datenbank einträgt. Funktionieren tut es danach natürlich trotzdem nicht, aber immerhin hat Debian ein echt beeindruckendes Bugtracking-System.
<plaisthos> Ok bin ich halt doch in den fortunes *grummel*
<plaisthos> d.h. es ist es jetzt eh zu spät, dann kann
ich ja ruhig bischen unsinn reden.
<Joey> Jetzt wird's kriminell * Joey erklärt schon wieder, wie man grafische Programme bedient.
<towo> Jetzt gräbt TCW hier wieder armes, unschuldiges Weibsvolk an! Tsk. <ij> weibsvolk? wo? <ij> *aufhorch* <towo> ij: LGS. <ij> towo: das ist weder Weib noch Volk
<weasel> Joey: das tolle an dir ist u.A., daß Du eine
tolle Fortunes-Quelle bist.
<Getty> Software, die es probiert, gehört gesteinigt. <plaisthos> Software steinigen? <plaisthos> Wird die dann zur Hardware?
<weasel> roerich: Erklärst Du anderen Autoren auch, was sie so schreiben?
<Zomb> hat mich nur grade an einen "Kollegen" erinnert. "Hey, ich habe die Rohlinge formatiert und jetzt wollte ich drauf Schreiben aber dat sacht, Permission denied."
Und ja, Debian hat bei mutt und OpenSSL massiv Theater gemacht.
<Aquarioph> Ihr mögt ja nichtmal Systemadministratoren <Aquarioph> *!*root@*
<mrvn> falky: Was sagst du denn zum Schnee? <falky> mrvn: Schnee? <mrvn> *zum Fenster zeig* <falky> oh tatsächlich das schneit ja
<cfreak> Blut in q3 stört nur die Sicht
<Scorpi> TCW: Benutz gefälligst Windows,
dann kannst du auch wieder mit GUIs umgehen.
<Alfie> CAiRO: Wie paßt Deine Antwort jetzt auf meine Frage?
<Netzpyton> Jemand 'ne Idee warum der Konqueror 2.2 versucht,
den Quelltext einer HTML-Seite mit GIMP zu öffnen?
<Gromitt> aber das, was ich meine .. war nicht das, was ich wollte
<Salz> trxx: ja, das nennt sich Dreisatz
(./configure --prefix=~ && make && make install)
<Alfie> Seit wann ist Bluehorn im security-team? <Alfie> * Non-maintainer upload by the Security Team <Alfie> -- Torsten Landschoff <torsten@debian.org> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:54:12 +0100 <Alfie> Bluehorn, Joey: ?! <Joey> Ups..., da hat wohl wer das changelog nicht richtig rewritten...
<stockholm> Ach was, ich mache witze. <stockholm> Und stell mich absichtlich dumm an. <stockholm> Sorry <stockholm> Fand ich gerade witzig.
<Joey> Ja. Tipp mir mal nach G - O - O - G - L - E
<knopper> Es ist dazu geeignet, um Daten zu überschreiben, Partitionen
zu verändern, und Festplatteninhalte unwiderruflich zu zerstören.
Und manchmal kann man damit auch Debian installieren. Noch Fragen?
<stony> Also, ich glaub', wenn der Krieg mal in Deutschland ausbricht,
versteck' ich mich hinter waldi, vorausgesetzt der schießt
so schnell wie er kickt *G*
<Zomb> ahhh, ich habe Sneakers verpaßt
<Zomb> err, sleepers
<Joey> So durcheinander wie Du jetzt schon bist, hättest
Du dem Film eh nicht folgen können.
<formorer> was hat er eigentlich ? <falcon78> 7deop XSnack noshadow Joey[tm] <falcon78> formorer: Script-Kiddies mit Support von Joey und Co.
<shrew> was ist eine busmouse <wuffael> Schaffnerin mit hybschem Lächeln.
<KeefR> Hm, 108MB neue Pakete... Hab das Updaten etwas vernachlässigt ;-)
meebey changed the topic of #debian.de.rentner to: [..] | Joey ist evil[tm] |
<fux> _____________ Bitte unterschreiben sie hier <fux> Madkiss unterschreibt auch alles <fux> Die Waschmaschine wird morgen geliefert
<susn> Mein Ausländisch ist halt nicht so besonders. <Zugschlus> Englisch ist nicht Ausländisch. <susn> Ich bin halt vom alten Europa.
<Zomb> Joey: wenn du Zeit hast, kannst du mal bitte Othmar antworten <Joey> Zomb: ich kann soviel machen, wenn ich Zeit habe.
<Joey> *augenverdrehinbesterLGSmanier* <Bluehorn> Joey: Moin! <towo> Bluehorn: Hast du jetzt auf LGS gehilighted?
<azeem> Scorpi: Zomb sagte, daß Knoppix eher testing als unstable sei <azeem> (in erster Näherung)
<knopper> falky: Ich weiss es echt nicht. Einige versuchen auch, das Knoppix-Image in Word zu laden und schreiben dann "Linux geht nicht".
<HE> no_maam: Aber wie gesagt: eval ist sehr böse und eröffnet vollkommen neue Dimensionen des Fußschusses.
<LGS> Alfie: Du solltest jetzt alt genug sein, um zu wissen,
daß es keine Welt "da draussen" gibt. Das, was Du
manchmal im Fenster siehst, naja, es ist halt ein guter
Bildschirm, und das Zeug das du siehst ist animiert
<mrvn> Wir haben schon etliche gute Männer, Frauen und kleine pelzige
Kreaturen von Alpha Centauri bei dem Versuch verloren, debs zu bauen.
<Alfie> Es ist Montag Morgen, mach da nicht solche Gedankensprünge!
<meebey> Ich warte auf offziellen 2.4 mit dem ptrace bugfix
<meebey> Ich mag keine homemades Patches
<HE_> meebey: Gibt's wohl erst, wenn Marcelo wiederbelebt wurde.
Also so in 2 bis 3 Jahren...
*** dpnrs8ptl (~borooty@pD9543DF0.dip.t-dialin.net) is now known as tqs23NON- <Salz> tqs23NON-: in das feld gehört der nick und nicht das passwort ;) <tqs23NON-> shid... *** tqs23NON- (~borooty@pD9543DF0.dip.t-dialin.net) has left channel #debian.de
Debian ist für faule Admins, die besseres zu tun haben als den ganzen Tag mit Updates beschäftigt zu sein und jedes Programm zu studieren.
Debian ist der Versuch, ein freies GNU/Linux zu schaffen. Herausgekommen ist die Kickass-Distribution.
[4. Mär 2003] DSA-257 sendmail - Entfernte Ausbeutung
<no_maam> Alfie: Wobei ich nicht so genau weiß, wie Joey programmiert. <Alfie> no_maam: Joey programmiert recht sauber, soweit ich das sehen kann. <Alfie> Wobei.... Joey verwendet kein use strict; :) <no_maam> Alfie: Das ist dann schon der 1. Widerspruch <Alfie> Deswegen das Wobei...
Irgendwie scheint Debian nichts zu mögen, was mit Klängen oder bunten Bildern zu tun hat.
<HE> BadWolf: Sag mal, hast du irgendwie spastische Zuckungen
in den Fingern, oder warum machst du die ganze Zeit
vollkommen überflüssige Smilies in eine eigene Zeile?
<mrvn> *freu* Auf der 50er Spindel Verbatim CDr sind 51 Rohlinge drauf gewesen
<Steve`> mrvn: da muß man erstmal drauf kommen, die durchzuzählen ,)
<mrvn> Steve`: Wenn du cd1-cd80 zum brennen vorbereitet hast und bei 51
die letzte CD weggeht zählt man schonmal nach.
<Steve`> mrvn: 1-80? brauchst du Hilfe?
<Steve`> ärztliche, vielleicht? ;)
<Zomb> HE: d.h. ich mache im Moment nichts an Linux/Debian/whatever <HE> Zomb: Nur hier im Channel Support leisten :-P <Zomb> Das ist was anderes, ich bin ein bishen informationssüchtig.
* Netzpyton will keinen MUA, der X benutzt, hab dafür zuwenig Zeit...
<Netzpyton> Evolution performt fast so wie Software aus Redmond.
<azeem> Hmm, der erste nutzvolle Spam, den ich bekommen habe <azeem> Jetzt weiß ich, daß auch eine Alias-Adresse meiner Uni-Email geht.
Der Versuch, Debian zu übersetzen, sorgt dafür, daß Leute ohne hinreichende Englischkenntnisse versuchen, Debian zu benutzen. Das muß natürlich scheitern.
* Scorpi dtx: Joey hat zuviel Zeit, er liest jetzt schon SPAM.
Stallman und die in letzter Zeit dankenswerterweise seltener werdenden Debian/GNU-Nazis sind der beste Grund, Debian *nicht* zu verwenden. (Den Teufel werde ich tun! Debian schmerzt von allen Linux-Distributionen am allerwenigsten...)
<Getty> Ey, wat is los? <Getty> So kann das Wetter doch garnicht sein. <Getty> HALLO, wir sind auf debian.de und ihr sagt nix? <diamond6> Getty: es wurde schon alles gesagt.
<fronti> Einen wunderschönen guten Morgen und einen tollen Tag, der hoffentlich nicht zu lange mit Arbeit vollgestopt ist, so daß man den Biergarten noch genießen kann, wünsche ich allen <Alfie> fronti: Stirb leise und hinterlaß keine Flecken...
<weasel> der DPL nix Boss, der DPL bloss Oberdepp. <weasel> .oO( eigentlich wäre ja Joey ideal für den Job ) *fortunes ausgrab*
<Scorpi> Was heißt eigentlich die Fehlermeldung "Auf NT-Technologie basierend"?
Seine herauszuhebende Leistung ist, daß er es immer wieder schafft, seinen Namen in der Presse zu halten, und sei es mit widerlichen Marketing-Stunts wie seinen Werbebannern im Linux Kernel und lächerlichen Lizenz-Diskussionen auf Debian-Mailinglisten (und das ist in der Tat eine sichere Methode, eine Diskussion auf unbestimmte Zeit am Laufen zu halten).
<yath> "Also we now learn Joey is a very powerful telekinetic
and can move stuff with his mind." *angst bekomm*
* mellum haßt Leute, die ihre Sätze nicht zuende
<Getty> Es gibt 'ne Studie, das angeblich Leute, die Fleisch essen,
auch Frauen schlagen.
<ref> Dann gehöre ich zu bekennenden Frauen-Vertrimmern
* XSnack fragt sich, was das Projekt macht, wenn Joey unter die Haube kommt.
<Tolimar> Als Debianer findet man keine Freundin. Da gibt man
"apt-cache search girl friend" ein, und erfährt, daß "girlfriend"
etwas ganz böses ist, und bleibt deshalb lieber Single.
<miro> Tolimar: es gibt ja auch porn-get
* Tolimar .oO ( Zählt es als Selbstbeweihräucherung, wenn man seine eigenen Kommentare für die Fortunes vorschlägt? )
<HE> Das ist Satire? <mc> Nein. Das ist ein Weblog einer 15jährigen. <HE> Endlich verstehe ich, warum PISA in Deutschland so eine Katastrophe war.
Der Typ, der Netatalk erfunden hat bzw. daran rumcoded hat, hat echt viel zuwenig Drogen genommen.
<meebey> Frag ihn doch <mellum> Nein Danke, mein Tag war schon surrealistisch genug.
Ein KDE-Entwickler, während er einigen Debian-Entwickler, die ausführlich Tische in einem Restaurant verrücken: "Typisch Debian: Brauchen 5 Jahre, liefern aber ein perfektes Ergebnis ab."
Es kommt absolut nicht drauf an, ob Du jetzt einen @debian.org Account hast oder nicht. Es kommt nur drauf an, ob Du was tust oder nicht.
<mellum> 01:36 in #debian.de. Das Niveau steigt unaufhaltsam.
<Scorpi> My name is Robert, I am from Poland. <Scorpi> I have iBook Toshiba Satellite 1800-400 ( IntelCeleron 800 MHz,... <Scorpi> Haben iBooks in Polen Celeron-Prozessoren?
Der YAST für Debian heißt VIM.
<Scorpi> 21° hier *genieß* <susn> Scorpi ein LCD ? <mc> GRAD, nicht ZOLL * mc patscht susn <mc> machst Du Brille-Aufsetz
<Getty> "Hulk wütend! Hulk macht kaputt" <dennis> Getty: erinnert mich an dich :P <Getty> dennis: "Dennis böse, Dennis kaputt machen!"
<mc> oops <yath> boobs? <mc> armer yath. nix im kopf aber ständig an boobs denken. <yath> lass mich halt wenigstens an was denken
<mellum> Sind die komischen Radfahrer da eigentlich schon durch? <ref-> Durch sind die sobald die aufs Rad steigen.
<mc> nobse: Du kannst türkisch? <nobse> mc: Nein, ich kann nur nicht tippen.
<Getty> Wieso.. Wieso sind die Daten, die ich 20mal redundant
gehalten habe, jetzt nicht mehr da?
<Salz> Getty: Auslöschung durch Masseninterferenz?
<Alfie> Du hast keine Beziehung, oder? <maxx> Zumindest keine, bei der man von Ringen beherrscht wird.
<nitram> Webdesigner oder PHP-Coder gehört so
zu den letzten Sachen, die ich machen würde...
<nitram> Das kommt gleich nach putzen gehn, oder so ;)
<CHS> Na, ich hab ihm schon erklärt, warum DebConf 2k5 nicht
in den Bergen stattfindet, das muß reichen.
<Alfie> Was muß man da erklären? DebConf heuer war schon in
Norwegen, warum soll das in zwei Jahren wieder dort
stattfinden? *wonders*
<CHS> Mit Bergen war Tirol gemeint, aber egal.
<Alfie> Ich dachte, Du redest von der Stadt Bergen :)
<CHS> Hehe, einfach is das richtige Wort... Aber vermutlich brauchts
noch einige Zeit bis das ding benutzerfreundlich wird, oder?
<Joey> Offenbar... Ist wenigstens nicht voll Joey-kompatibel.
Hat hier jmeand ein altes Debian für Alpha och irgendwo rumfahren? Slink ist viel zu neu.
<Salz> Was wolltest du uns mit den Trigraphs eigentlich sagen? <nerror> Ende der Welt. <Salz> Ach so, ja, aber durch Hitzetod.
* Tolimar hat nen älteren Bruder und ältere Schwestern. <Tolimar> Bekomm ich jetzt Mitleids-Sonder-Punkte?
<ps> Ich mag die vielen bunten Fenster...
irssi is was für Undercover-Ircing @ work :p
<amq> Hat einer nen digitalblasphemy-Login? <Getty> Nein, aber danke für den Tip.
<leave, join, leave, join> <pcm> Sorry, mein PC hat seine 5 Minuten. <Salz> Bis jetzt waren das nur 3.
<maxx> Puh, kaum ist man mal einen Tag nicht da,
gibt es den Angriff der maxx-Clones.
<Re-EL> Ist bei debian ein benchmark zum cpu testen dabei?
Muß nichts großartiges sein.
<Scorpi_> Re-EL: openssl, mpg123,...
<Scorpi_> oggenc
<Re-EL> Ok, also nicht ;)
<mellum> Das gute an der Demokratie ist, daß jedes Volk
genau die Regierung bekommt, die es verdient.
<Getty> War das nicht das schlechte an der Demokratie?
<mellum> Kommt auf den persönlichen Zynismuslevel an
Die Antworten waren Antworten auf deine Frage. Nicht auf deine Gedanken.
<meebey> Was mich interessieren würde, ist, wie schnell
Windows 100.000 Threads erstellen kann.
<Scorpi> meebey: das dauert sicher, wegen der vielen Reboots zwischendurch.
<nib_nico> Ich bekomm einfach einen Foen, weil scheinbar
Variablenzuweisungen und Ausgaben unterscheidlich funktionieren.
<Joey> Klar.
<Joey> Brot schmeckt ja auch anders als Tee
* Zomb stellt fest: nicht alles ist Gold, was glänzt, z.B. ReiserFS
<tarzeau> Joey: erwähnst du grundsätzlich alles was neu
ist oder nur das was du für erwähnenswert hältst?
<Joey> ja.
<formorer> Wie immer eine klare und eindeutige Antwort von Joey
* formorer ist wiedermal sehr stolz auf Joey
<Getty> wir sind doch froh wenn er ueberhaupt was sagt.
<Salz> Hm, ich hab hier ein Byte mit dem Wert 265 <Salz> oder gibt cmp oktal aus?
<maxx> Aqua mach mal man brain.... <Aquariophile> maxx: schon probiert das gibts ned
<Treibholz> was war rm -rf nochmal? <Treibholz> read mail really fast?
<youam> Subject: Re: %RND_UC_CHAR[2-8], decentlooking passenger carrying <youam> Spammer, die zu dumm sind, ihre Makros aufzulösen?
<wuffel> Haaahahahahaaaa!!!111!!! Jawoll! Volle Fahrt voraus! <wuffel> Mail vom Kunden: "unser Mailsystem geht nicht mehr" <wuffel> Kurs aufs Riff!
<fek> Kann jemand ein Buch zum Thema Perl-Scripting
empfehlen, speziell für Bash-Scripte?
<Joey> Der Plan wurde noch nicht überholt, oder hab ich das verpaßt? <Zugschlus> Der Plan wurde, sagen wir's mal so, kompromittiert.
Seit wann sind Datumsangaben bei Debian-Release-Plänen ernst gemeint?
<Zugschlus> Der Maintainer ist ein arrogantes <zensiert> <H0arry> Ich will ja nur seinen links benutzen, und ihn nicht heiraten.
*** formorer (~formorer@homer.snow-crash.org) has left channel #debian.de *** formorer (~formorer@homer.snow-crash.org) has joined channel #debian.de <formorer> was war das denn? <nobse> formorer: Du bist zu schnell durch die Drehtür.
<oberon-> Scorpi: Wozu ist diese Extra-Lampe am Display eigentlich gut?
<Scorpi> oberon-: Damit Du keine Kerze in die Tastatur stecken mußt,
wenn Du im Dunkeln tippen willst.
<Salz> Toll ist dselect aus woody beim ändern der Fenstergröße. <Salz> dselect: failed to getch in main menu: Success
<Alfie> "Der Tiergarten von Hannover hat einen neuen Star: »Joey«!"
Ich muß schon sagen, ich bekomme verdächtig wenig Mail. Wenn ich nicht wüßte, daß fast ganz debian.org down wäre, würde mich das echt stutzig machen...
<Scorpi> Hm, mit 2.6.1-rc1 scheint die Tastatur kaputtgegangen zu sein. :-/ * Scorpi dtx: 2.6 ist mehr für tastaturlose Router gedacht.
Das Web-Of-Trust skaliert nicht über Communities hinaus. Selbst noch recht kleine Communities wie Debian kommen nicht ohne eine strikte Signing-Policy aus, um ein ausreichenes Web-Of-Trust zu etablieren.
Immer wieder dieselben Akteure ... Unter press@debian.org, security@debian.org, events@debian.org, dwn@debian.org etc. antwortet meist ein Herr Schulze aus Oldenburg. Um meine Debian-ein-Personen-Theorie zu untermauern fehlt mir jetzt noch der Nachweis, daß <alfie@ist.org> und <joey@infodrom.org> identisch sind.
<Alfie> hits=10.8 * Alfie wird noch mal ein professioneller Spammer
<weasel> "abuse mail will be postet" <weasel> der wollte was von mir -> abusive
Übrigens wird unter dem Mantel der Verschwiegenheit auch die gegensätzliche Theorie gehandelt, daß sich hinter dem Pseudonym "Joey" eine sieben- bis achtköpfige Debian-Entwicklergruppe verbirgt.
<weasel> Joey, die neunköpfige Hydra von Debian?
<Zomb> He <Zomb> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/jow-22.01.04-000/ <Zomb> Centrino-Treiber sind fast so gut wie Hurd <_rene_> Haha <_rene_> Also grottenschlecht <Zomb> Nein, die kommen nächstes Jahr
<azeem> Rhonda: soll ich Dich rauslassen? <Rhonda> Mir egal, ich habs aufgegeben. <Rhonda> Ich erkenne Windmühlen, wenn ich welche sehe.... <azeem> Jetzt mach mal nen Punkt <Rhonda> .
<Gromitt> _rene_: was macht OOo? bin nun gar nicht mehr auf den neuesten Stand <_rene_> Gromitt: inzwischen in main, die meisten Ximian patches integriert... <Gromitt> _rene_: MAIN!? Ja mai.. Ihr seid schon Götter
<Gromitt> nobse: Tust Du mir einen Gefallen... Portierst Du YAST auf
Debian, damit meine Freundin meinen Router Konfigurieren kann?
* nobse macht mehr Bugs von Rhonda zu... * Rhonda merkt das. * Rhonda macht neue auf.
<Rhonda> Hatte ich schon erwähnt, daß ich nicht zurechnungsfähig bin?
<yath> boah nee ey <yath> schon wieder 'n root-exploit? <yath> ich kann heute gar nicht so viel fressen wie ich kotzen muß <plaisthos> yath: täglich grüßt das root-exploit ;)
<Getty> Das ist hier wie 'ne Sitcom... <Getty> Ok 'ne schlechte Sitcom, aber unsere :)
<Wulf> Was gibt's denn für'n Puzzle-Spiel, wo ich ein Foto hab und
das in Quadrate o.ä. aufgeteilt wird, die ich dann wieder
richtig zusammensetzen muß?
<yath> Wulf: ReiserFS?
<zahedi> Wie clever ist es, ein stable auf testing upzugraden? <zahedi> Ich habe regelmäßig Updates auf meinem stable-System durchgeführt. <Salz> zahedi: Wenn Du fragst ist es nicht so clever.
* ij kündigt mal neuen Content für http://www.buildd.net an <mellum> ij: Bilder von nackten Frauen? <Madkiss> Nacktbilder von dir? <formorer> ij: huch wie kommts ? <abi> ein "ich mag aj nicht" memorial?
<cran> vim ist der emacs unter den vis
Letztlich ist der Einfluß einer Distribution wie Debian nicht zu unterschätzen.
<Madkiss> Tolimar: Du bist nicht zufällig über-kreativ, oder? <Tolimar> Madkiss: Nein, ich bin eigentlich nur über-müdet.
<Getty> Joey: Hattest recht <cw81> Getty: Joey hat IMMER recht.
<LGS> Gibt es eigentlich auch bei anderen Linux so 'ne Art Juniorpack? <Wulf> LGS: SuSE, aber da vermisse ich das für Erwachsene
Debian gibt es in drei Flavours: stale, rusting und broken, die ein- bis zweimal je Jahrzehnt umbenannt werden.
* Joey seufzt <Joey> Was tut man gegen Leute, die den Schuß einfach nicht hören? <ij> lauter schießen? <cw81> ERschießen
<towo> Mist, wo ist meine Niwohilfe HE wenn ich sei brauche. <youam> towo: Niwo Dusiebrauchst
<TCW> brb... Hund quengelt ;) <morgoth> killall -9 hund
<ij> Salz: m68k braucht lustigerweise nur ca. 3 GB
<Salz> ij: für m68k existiert ja auch kein Container
voller Grafikkarten, die unterstützt werden müssen.
Obwohl es viele nicht mehr glauben, aber auch Debian bringt ab und zu mal ein Release raus.
<mc> Ich hab 5000 Freunde, die Orkut gar nicht kennen! <ij> Es gibt Freunde außerhalb von Orkut? *d'oh!* <mc> ij: nee <mc> Orkut hat das Konzept von Freunden erst erfunden <ij> Orkut hat Freunde erfunden!
<Salz> Zugschlus: btw. 10 OSI-Schichten? Was ist denn die 10.?
<Zugschlus> Salz: Physical Link Network Transport Session Presentation
Application User Politics Religion.
<Salz> Joey[tm]: "kann ich <sinnlos>" ist eigentlich immer nein ;)
Debian GNU/Linux ist sicherlich nicht das beste OS, was es gibt, es suckt halt nur weniger.
Als Firma wäre Debian schon 1000x gescheitert (1x pro Mitarbeiter)
<ij> Ich glaube, es ist einfacher, Joey zu ner Woche
Urlaub auf'm Boot zu überreden.
<mrvn> Du mußt Joey nur überreden, eine Woche Urlaub zu nehmen.
Das mit dem Boot ist dann trivial.
Hmm, OpenZaurus merkt man deutlich an, daß es auf Debian basiert. Die releasen genauso selten.
Debian released so langsam, wie Gentoo compiliert.
<falky> Naja das mit dem Denken ist bei mir seit ein
paar Tagen nur eingeschränkt moeglich, naja egal
<towo> Privilege seperation zwischen "Frauen" und "Linux"
aktivieren in Deinem Hirn sollte helfen.
<Salz> MrTux: mëïnë ümläütë sïnd nïcht überflüssïg! <roerich> ja <roerich> alles klar Salz <roerich> türkisch für Anfänger?
Ich habe gehört, daß die Uni so 100 Sparcs mit je 'nem Gig RAM in 'nem neuen Poolraum aufstellen will mit Debian. Wenn ich da morgen zum ersten mal vorbeischaue, nehm ich 'nen Eimer mit zum Sabbern.
<weasel> | Omniscience Protocol Requirements <weasel> Die müssen doch nur Joey fragen, der hat das doch schon am laufen
Readers of Debian Planet were recently treated to the spectacle of Sheik Yassin -- a man only one fluffy pussycat away from being a Bond villain.
<Alfie> Mit exim3 oder exim4?
<weasel> ja
<Alfie> Toll.
* Alfie verleiht weasel den großen
»Ich habe auf entweder-oder mit ja geantwortet«-Orden.
<Alfie> In blau, mit Band.
<Joey> towo: semantic error detected in line 1 <towo> Joey: Du bist ja fast verboser als ein Assembler-Debuggerer.
<Scorpi> 24" CRT? ist deine alte Heizung kaputt?
<Getty> ij: "Was braucht ein Lateinschüler für eine Brieffreundschaft?"
"Nen Stift, nen Blatt und ne Schaufel"
<ij> Getty: Um den Lateinlehrer zu vergraben?
<Getty> ij: Nein um den Brieffreund auszugraben.
So ist Debian: Früher wurde Software einfach nur langsam alt. Jetzt tun wir auch noch was dafür!
* _rene_ wirft ganz vorsichtlich andeutungsweise drei O's in Richtung weasel <maxx> jetzt hast du ihn mit Seifenblasen erschlagen
<Madkiss> Joey: Du kannst das gesamte Forum zum Fortunes-File umbasteln. <Madkiss> Joey: Ein Hammer jagt den nächsten
<nobse> Sendmail stinkt. <nobse> 10 km gegen den Wind.
Debian ist tot, wenn woody zwei Jahre alt wird. Und das ist in zwei Monaten.
* yath will sich prinzipiell sowas wie diff(1) bauen,
weiß aber nicht so recht wie er vorgehen soll
<no_maam> Nein, Du willst nicht sowas wie diff bauen, du willst diff verwenden
Debian ist kein Projekt mehr, das eine Distribution herausbringt, sondern eine Laberbude von ideologischen Fanatikern.
<Alfie> Hey, _ich_ hab zumindest das Rosa nicht nach planet.d.n
gebracht, das war ganz von selbst dort.
<HE> Alfie: Das waren deine rosa Gedanken.
<Alfie> Ich wußte garnicht, daß die so weit reichen... Coool!
<mrvn> Ohja, ne Turingpizza. Man fängt in der Mitte an
und sie geht in beide Richtungen endlos weiter?
<Tolimar> Ganneff: Mitbekommen? Die fragen sich, was ich geraucht und/oder
getrunken habe, nur weil du deine LED-Tags nicht vorschlagen wolltest.
Ich lese debian-devel, um die Zeit zu überbrücken, die der Compiler braucht oder Testläufe.
Auch ich bekomme Debian nur unter Schmerzen zum laufen.
Debian ist auch das OS für Mamis - funktionell und ohne Schnickschnack.
Da haben wir es wieder: Ich schreibe an eine beliebige Adresse im Debian-Umfeld - und Joey antwortet.
Wenn ich das Elend bei der Arbeit vergessen will, dann les ich debian-devel und weiß, daß es mir noch gut geht.
Wer eine einfache Linux-Installation will, greift nicht unbedingt zu Debian.
Die größte Dummheit ist dabei offenbar, Debian überhaupt angefaßt zu haben.
Debian hat natürlich ein paar ziemliche Macken, gerade im Bereich Installation, aber wenn man ein klein wenig der Hilfe von anderen gegenüber aufgeschlossen ist und nicht absichtlich das analytische Denken abschaltet, lassen sie sich leicht umschiffen.
<weasel> Ich glaub', langsam versteh ich Frauen. <weasel> Die kaufen auch immer unnützes Zeug, das sie nicht brauchen. <weasel> Genauso wie ich Domains.
* weasel glaubt, Joey idlet den ganzen Tag, um nur für die fortunes zu sammeln
Stell dir vor, du mußt 1000 Debian-CDs einzeln auf einen 5000m hohen Berg tragen und bei Windstärke 10 übereinanderstapeln
<Alfie> HE: Ich komme Dir näher.
Also habe ich vor Zeiten versucht, mir ein Debian in einer Vmware installiert (Merke: Fremdgehen nur mit Kondom!).
Manche Leute sind ja der Meinung, daß Debian eine "Linux-Distribution" sei. Das ist eine Täuschung. Debian ist einfach nur schlecht.
<nobse> Subject: Bug#248397: RFH: grub -- GRand Unified Bootloader <nobse> Hmm, das 'H' steht für Help, ich dachte erst an Hijack.
<Alfie> Ganneff: Wenn Du gesagt hättest, Madkiss zählt als 20, aber Joey... <Alfie> Du machst Dich lächerlich. <Alfie> Joey ist ein Hemd mit Knochen.
<youam> Ich wollte grade eine Datei in einem Subversion-Repository verändern.
<youam> Ich wollte also erst gucken, was sich schon verändert hatte
<youam> also: $ svn diff $datei | vim -
<youam> Es endete damit, daß ich den diff so umgeschrieben hab,
daß er meine Änderung enthielt.
<youam> Daß das nicht geht ist mir erst beim Speichern aufgefallen
<Quota> sacht mal... <Quota> unter linux... <Quota> und zwar Debian woody <Quota> da vergeht die zeit so langsam <Quota> (und das ist jetzt kein scherz ;)
<weasel> .oO( wie alt ist Joey denn, daß er noch anon.penet.fi kennt ) <Alfie> So alt kanns gar nicht sein, wenn Du es auch kennst.
* Tolimar denkt halt schneller, als er tippen kann. * Tolimar braucht einen größeren Tipp-Cache in den Fingern.
<weasel> Also ich möchte nicht $vorwahl umartens haben <youam> weasel: Du heißt ja auch nicht so :-P <weasel> Da is was dran :)
<miro> Ich hasse es, wenn Leute anrufen und dann nix sagen... <maxx> Das sind telefonierende Fische, Du hast die nur nicht verstanden.
<TCW> .oO( reality check? ) <abi> Segmentation fault
<Madkiss> mrvn: Und Joey kann sich afaik immer noch nicht clonen.
<Alfie> Wie übersetzt man grep? <Alfie> In einer geistigen Umnachtung ist mir wohl folgendes passiert: <Alfie> msgid "grep-dctrl -- grep Debian control files" <Alfie> msgstr "grep-dctrl -- grep Debian-Control-Dateien"
<waldi> *gna* Warum bricht d-i bei jeder kleinen Änderung auf i386 zusammen? <Zomb> waldi: Muß das überlegene Design sein
Debian lehnt Software als nicht frei genug ab, die über die Lizensierung von Nutzungsrechten (aus dem Urheberrecht) versucht, die Wirkung von Patenten einzudämmen.
<florolf> Joey ist geistig abwesend <florolf> Körperlich isser ja hier <florolf> Sonst würder ned tippen
If you have the time and the engagement, try to find more than one occupation within Debian. So frustration in one area can be balanced with success in another one.
<weasel> .oO( ah, debian-women ist unter 'misc', nicht unter
'ports' bei den Listen )
<Tolimar> Ähhh... dachtest du, die Liste behandelt die
Portierung von Debian auf die Architectur »Frau«?
<Myon> hrmpf, das Wetter heute nervt <Myon> ständig muß man den Vorhang auf/zu machen wegen Regen/Sonne
<Freak> Die haben schon wieder Munchs Schrei gestohlen! <Joey> Der Schrei paßt irgendwie zu Debian...
Ich bewunder Dich, wie Du es schaffst in 24h am Tag alle debian-mls im Blick zu haben.
<Alfie> Yippie, koffice ist aus sarge rausgeflogen. :) <maxx> Gut, gut <maxx> Ist ja eh nur ein Proof of Concept...
Auf implizite Aussagen laß ich mich in Debian nicht mehr ein.
<waldi> Juhu, neues lvm2 geht wieder nicht.
Ich finde es ganz einfach überflüssig, auf Kommentare von Personen einzugehen, die aufgrund ihrer Aussagen manifestieren, daß ihnen das notwendige Grundlagenwissen über Debian-Interna fehlt.
Florian: Kenne ich gar nicht. Thomas: Das hat Du mir doch gezeigt, als Du mir Debian drauf gehauen hast.
<Ganneff> Tolimar hat halt Kannibalen-Fanta
Es bringt nichts zu versuchen, gegen das System zu administrieren. Bei Suse benutze ich auch YaST für meine Netzwerkeinstellungen, obwohl mir die Debian-Methode besser gefällt.
<mrvn> Smartie: ln -s /bin/true /etc/rc*/K*name <_aba> mir wird schlecht
* Myon hat den Eindruck, daß IRC die einzige ipv6-Applikation überhaupt ist
<Rhonda> Mach kein Person-Hopping, da verlier ich den Kontext.
<Joey> Btw. Du sollst hier keine Befehle blind abtippen,
ich hoffe, Du weißt, was Du tust...
Ob man den Social Contract von Debian gegen den aus Pratchetts "Guards! Guards!" tauschen könnte?
Fehlerberichte sollen aber dennoch über das reguläre Debian Bucktrackingsystem abgewickelt werden.
Debian ist auch das OS für Mamis - funktionell und ohne Schnickschnack.
<thom> Joy: I doubt anyone would be upset if you flooded Beligum <liiwi> thom: Only if .nl was flooded accidentally at same time.
<Joy> .be can go, but klecker.d.o is in .nl, hence, we couldn't allow that <StevenK> China can flood Belgium, but we need to save the beer the chocolate. <wiggy> klecker is above sealevel <StevenK> wiggy: So are floodwaters, usually.
<ij> "Ich finde es unsäglich, daß gerade #debian.de sich durch eine extreme <ij> Unfreundlichkeit auszeichnet." (freenode) <ij> nanu? dort bin ich doch gar nicht ;)
Ich mußte mal 3 Tage mit einem iBook unter OS X arbeiten. Nie wieder. Leider wurde mir verboten da Debian drauf zu packen.
<Getty> ich hab Linux und Windows, er Linux und MacOSX <nobse> Ich hab Linux und Solaris. <Getty> jeder hat so seinen Tick
<Myon> *uargh*, madduck, Konzack, paddy und Bidder in einem Thread <Tolimar> Hört sich fast nach einem Vorzeichen der Apokalypse an...
<Tolimar> Falls noch jemanden Anregungen oder Tippfehler für mich hat... <Tolimar> Ähhh... Nein, Tippfehler hab ich ja selbst genug ;)
<aba> Natürlich habe ich recht. <aba> Das ist Basis-Wissen, und wird bei Task und Skills abgefragt.
<aba> Rhonda: Fandest Du Deine Bemerkung hilfreich? <Rhonda> Findest du elmos (nicht)verhalten hilfreich?
<plaisthos> Was ist schlimm bei Exim?
<Madkiss> Einmal installiert breitet es sich aus und saugt ähnlich
wie ein Dämon alles auf, was auf dem System existiert
<yath> Wann gelten diese Zusätze "bei Nässe" bei den Straßenschildern? <yath> Wenn die Straße naß ist? Wenn's regnet? <Salz> Bei Nässe.
Damn, dieser Witz verbreitet sich ja als Lauffeuer! Ich komme heute zur Arbeit, da hängt an meinem »Büro« ein Schild: Debian Labs for PR+EM, office of the CEO, outpost Frankfurt. Sogar mit Öffnungszeiten.
<Ganneff> seh ich aus wie'n Knuddelteddy, oda watt?
<Tolimar> Ganneff: Naja, wenn man sich vostellt, daß Du nur etwa 1/10
Deiner Größe hast, flauschiges weiches Fell, eine Stuppsnase
und abstehende, pelzige Ohren, wäre Dir eine gewisse Ähnlichkeit
mit einem Teddy nicht abzusprechen...
Wenn man euch alle so hört, könnte man fast den Eindruck gewinnen, daß Madkiss ein dämlicher Spinner ist. Dabei wissen wir doch alle, daß er Debian revolutionieren und alles besser machen wird!
* Rhonda . o O ( Und schon wieder djpig im Fehlerbericht zu einem der Pakete aufgetaucht... Der Typ ist mir unheimlich... )
<Joey> *seufz* Viel Spaß beim Hintermirherräumen... <Rhonda> Ich räume gerne hinter Dir her. <Rhonda> Das zeigt mir immer so hübsch, daß Du auch nur eine Mensch bist.
<_rene_> -elsif ($platform ne $Winnt ) <_rene_> +elsif ($platform !~ m/windows|darwin/) <_rene_> Sowas nennt man Thinko und Typo in einem
<zed2k> Frauen sind ein Fehler im OSI-Layer 8
<HE> Bei den meisten Geeks scheitert die Kommunikation
mit Frauen schon auf Layer 1.
<nobse> postfix-gld - greylisting dämon for postfix, written in C, uses MySQL <nobse> postgrey - Greylisting implementation for Postfix <nobse> Welchen von beiden will man? <chorse> nobse: keinen <nobse> chorse: Thema verfehlt. Setzen. Sechs. <nobse> Nächster.
<frobnic> Hi yath. Haste deine Zündspule bekommen?
<yath> Ja, sie funktioniert prima
<yath> Ich werd sie trotzdem wieder zum Schrotthändler bringen.
Allerdings mit Auto außenrum.
<Salz> Gibt es denn irgendwo "GPL for Dummies" oder "GPL in a Nutshell"? <weasel> 1) 'Du distributen Binaries: Du auch müssen Verteilen Source' <weasel> 2) 'Du bauen was dazu: das auch GPL sein' <weasel> Hab ich was vergessen?
<hohjg> Was macht man heute noch mit einer Mailbox? <hohjg> Reiner Nostalgie-Betrieb? <frobnic> Yepp. Ich will einer der Leute sein, die im FIDO das Licht ausmachen.
<weasel> gibt's im Moment eigentlich brauchbare Spiele? * youam kämpft mal wieder mit automake
<Myon> Hab Alfie's Slap nur verbessert ;) * Alfie reißt Myon das Deppenapostroph aus der Hand und sticht es ihm ins Auge.
<azeem> Was ist das denn für ein Feiertag heute in .at? <Alfie> Maria Empfängnis. <azeem> Oh, die war gleich im 9. Monat schwanger? <CHS> So einfach ist das nicht mit der Maria :) <Alfie> Wenns der heilige Geist macht, geht das schneller.
<Ganneff> Eins is mal sicher - mit Allolol hassu wenig Tippfehler
<Tolimar> Dann sollte ich vielleicht damit anfangen, mich zuzusaufen,
ehe ich eine Mail an eine Debian-Liste schicke
Frauen sind streßfreier als sich mit Debian abzumühen und machen mehr Spaß.
Eher lernt man Französisch in einer Nacht als Debian in einem Monat.
<schoos> Du willst mit 250 ms Delay nicht remote in ner Konsole arbeiten. <frobnic> Wenn man jahrelang mit Emacs gearbeitet hat, macht einem das nix aus.
<nobse> vim 7.0aa packages: http://people.debian.org/~nobse/vim/ <frobnic> Sind das nur neue Pakete, oder hast du gleich einen Editor eingebaut? * nobse steckt frobnic einen Finger ins Auge * frobnic trägt zum Glück eine Brille.
Frauen releasen zehn Monate nach Beginn der Vorbereitung. Das kann Debian nicht von sich sagen.
<youam> Geht mir eigentlich ähnlich. Geld ist irgendwie nur Mittel zum Zweck. <Ganneff> Bei Dir isses Mittel für IKEA.
<chorse> Mir ist in diesem Channel eh alles egal. Solang ich nicht
von Joey gequoted werde, halte ich mich für halbwegs normal.
<HE> Gemeint war: "Masturbation ist das Linux unter den Sexualpraktiken." <Ganneff> Wenn ich das umrechne hätt ich SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 'nen Arm. <azeem> Wenn ich das umrechne wäre ich total gut in Linux <HE> Wenn ich das Umrechne, müßte meine Freundin Windows sein. Hmm.
<Vetinari> Was hat T-Offline mit ihrem POP3 nun wieder verbrochen? <frobnic> Nix? Hab da grad noch SPAM abgeholt.
<XX> Hole:29 http://security.debian.org stable/updates/non-free Release [114B] <XX> was bedeutet das eigentlich? <XX> Loch 29 ??? <YY> von "holen" <YY> auf deutsch: download <YY> scheiss LANG=de_DE*
<Madkiss> Eher erschieße ich mich. <Joey> Auch gut. :-) <HE> Madkiss: Go! Go! Go!
* meebey holt sich Popcorn <formorer> Nehmt ihr immer Drogen bevor ihr auf'n Chan geht?
Debian gibt es in drei Flavours: Stale, Rusting und Broken, die ein- bis zweimal je Jahrzehnt umbenannt werden.
* Ganneff schneidet mal Zacken in Windows CD und benutzt die als Ninja-Stern.
<Ganneff> Tolimar: Nich wirklich so gefragt? <Tolimar> Ganneff: Schau mir in die Augen <Ganneff> Lieber nich <Tolimar> können diese Augen lügen. <Ganneff> nocomment
<Alfie> Wieso zum Teufel ist alexandria in Interpreters?! <Tolimar> Gute Frage. Sollte das nicht in Ägypten sein?
<towo> Quatsch, Gerhard höre ich jeden Morgen in Radio Erft.. <BlueByte> towo: Bei SWR3 is er auch <towo> OMG! <towo> Er hat eine funktionierende Implementation von libjoey!
Debian MiniConf is jeder. Den DebianDay, den gibt's nur am LinuxTag.
<Joey> Ach verdammt! Wieso muß ich jetzt auf einen Rechner
wollen, der aus ist, weil in FC.HP?
<Salz> Praktische Aspekte von Murphy, Teil 5.
<youam> HE: Ich bin ja so stolz auf Dich <HE> youam: Ich auch * Joey wischt mal den Schleim weg...
<TCW> So... Ich wünsch euch noch was tuffiges *winks*
<Joey> youam, der Overfiend-mode steht Dir nicht. <aba> Joey: Der steht auch Overfiend nicht.
<maxx> I mog nimma, i gea ham! <maxx> und für unsere nördlichen Nachbarn: bbl
Hihi, Debian bekommt jetzt sogar ein eigenes Rennrad-Team? Cool. Kommen zwar als letzte an, sind aber sobald sie das Ziel erreichen vollkommen stabil und durch nichts aus dem Sattel zu bringen.
<youam> Was für eine Währung ist "SZR"? <Joey> SchweiZerRubel?
* frobnic hatte mal eine setprom.btm mit >2048bytes <can-filip> Hattest Du eine eigene Shell integriert?
<Madkiss> Eure Kommentare lassen heute aber wieder sehr zu wünschen übrig
<HE> Madkiss: Es ist Sonntag. Vormittag. Und ich mache nebenbei
analytische Geometrie. Was erwartest du von mir?
* falky hätte gern jetzt einen Drucker mit eingebautem Replicator <maxx> Willst Du Dir ein Frühstück drucken? <falky> Nee, Papier ist alle, und der Weg ist soweit.
<Zomb> Niveau, wo bist du... <waldi> Zomb: Zuhause
<ij> Tja... Vom Design her ist der x86-Krempel sicherlich
mehr als doppelt so alt wie meine Amigas.
<Joey> ... und 10x so kaputt...
<mc> Jetzt jammer nicht, beim Chinesen gibt's zum Essen
auch immer nur ein fortune.
<mc> Du bist schon viel zu verwöhnt
<youam> Aber Joey schickt kein Essen mit.
<Madkiss> PING? <mc> *BOERPS* <Madkiss> Das ist zwar nicht RFC-Konform aber genügt als Antwort
* falky sollte vielleicht die 2-Hut-Therapie ausprobieren
<weasel> ?
<falky> Sich hinlegen, einen Hut über'n Fuß hängen,
soviel warmen Whiskey trinken, bis man zwei sieht.
<falky> Soll gegen Erkältung helfen.
* Salz klemmt Freshmans Frage an einen grünen Elefanten und aktiviert ein PAL-Feld.
<Alfie> Aber Deine Mutter kommt nicht an emBees Oma ran, die Mutt verwendet.
Debian ist wie Mobbing, es lebt vom Mitmachen.
<Madkiss> Nur Französisch habe ich noch <towo> ...was bei Dir ja nun alles andere als passend ist.
<weasel> Ich glaub, jetzt isses gedeadlockt <weasel> Weil gar nix mehr geht
<frobnic> Falls irgendwer hier Iomega-Geräte verwendet:
Deren Reklamation wird vor morgen Mittag nicht funktionieren.
* frobnic schreit ganz laut Scheiße.
<frobnic> Ist bei Wartungsarbeiten aus dem Rack gefallen.
Ich glaub das echt nicht mehr.
<frobnic> Ich bin total unschuldig, hatte aber den
Trottel am Telefon, der das verzapft hat.
<Freak> Wenn ich also mal denke: Mensch, wie hieß Bdale Garbee
nochmal, mache ich ein /whois auf bdale.
<weasel> Wer maintained apt eigentlich dieser Tage? <Joey> [] <weasel> Ah, der <weasel> Der macht eigentlich ziemlich viel in Debian
<_Victor> Bei uns macht der OPNV Werbung damit, daß man bei Wintereinbruch
keine Probleme mit Kratzen und Frieren hat.
<falky> Naja hat man hier dann ja auch nicht. Man muß halt nur zu Fuß gehen.
<mastermind> Das is in etwa genauso zum scheitern verursacht wie ein
brauchbares Datenbanksystem mit MySQL zu implementieren.
<weasel> Was hat MySQL mit Datenbanken zu tun?
<frobnic> ARGGH! * frobnic braucht jetzt dringend 'ne Kiste Baldrian.
<meebey> frobnic: Du bist kein Programmier-Zyniker, oder?
<Madkiss> frobnic: Siegelring? Für meinen Finger?
<frobnic> Madkiss: Der hatte schon zu, konnte also nicht nachfragen,
ob er auch große Größen hat.
<weasel> 0.0.9.6-1: hurd-i386 <weasel> 0.0.9.4-1: arm <weasel> das ist doch traurig <Cord> Das ist arm
<Ganneff> libfishsound - was ein Paketname
<schoos> Jetzt gönnt den Viren doch auch mal etwas frische Luft. <meebey> Genau! Windows darf das ja auch.
<Treibholz> My Router gives the ghost up!
<nobse> Man könnte auch einfach den Fernseher ausmachen,
wenn nix vernünftiges kommt.
<frobnic> Nein. Dieses WE ist zum Debuggen der DVB-T-Treiber reserviert.
<frobnic> Arggh. Ich wollte doch nie wieder in C-code herumpfuschen. <frobnic> .oO( Wie kriege ich bloß den Siff wieder von den Fingern? )
<hds> Joa ich hab dieses komische Debian mit Titten drauf,
weil ich's mal ausprobieren wollte
<hds> Mit dem richtigen Debian würde sicher alles gehen
<Madkiss> yath: Wer redet denn vom Sterben? <yath> Madkiss: Keiner, trotzdem machens alle.
* frobnic glotzt Fernsehen mit serieller Console und wartet auf den Oops.
<Hubble> Welches Kommando brauche ich, um Routing zu aktivieren? <formorer> Ohne Routing wärst Du nicht hier.
<Getty> Außerdem gibts noch hdü hdö und hdä ;)
<scoopexH> Jetzt gibts eine neue türkische Distribution:
kümbüntü... Mit türkischen Devicenamen /düv/hdü
<formorer> Gibts eigentlich mails2rss Tools? <nobse> mail2rss? <formorer> *such* <formorer> Klingt gut
<nobse> Wie streiche ich in LaTeX Text durch? <mrvn> Drucker, Bleistift und Lineal <nobse> Setzen, sechs.
<Ganneff> Weil ich voll normal bin, ey. <Tolimar> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ <Tolimar> | | | | / \ | | | | / \ | | <Tolimar> | |_| | / _ \ | |_| | / _ \ | | <Tolimar> | _ |/ ___ \| _ |/ ___ \|_| <Tolimar> |_| |_/_/ \_\_| |_/_/ \_(_) <Tolimar> <Tolimar> Ganneff: Der war gut!
<Getty> Bringen alle anderen Sender immer Scheiße, wenn Wetten dass läuft? <nobse> Nimm dir 'n Buch. <Getty> Ne <Getty> Das ist zu schwer
<Alfie> Tolimar: Ah. Gut, bzw. schlecht.
<Ganneff> Wärst mal letzten auf dem LT in meinen Vortrag gekommen.
<weasel> Tja, Du hast so bösse geschaut, da hab ich mich
dann einfach nicht getraut reinzugehn
<abi> Wulf: mysql ist eine Tabellenkalkulation? <Wulf> Ja?! <Wulf> Arbeitet mit Tabellen und kann rechnen
<HE> Komm, formorer, Dein Einsatz: Sag was zu SNMP. <formorer> SNMP? Security not my Problem
<HE> Vielleicht sollte ich sie einfach in 4, nicht in Spalten organisieren. <HE> s/in/in 2/ - Meine Güte, ich bin so wirr.
<XTaran> Öhm, schreiben wir das Announcement für Etch jetzt auch gleich? <HE> XTaran: Dann kann es ja reifen bis zum Release.
Der Unterschied zwischen Debian unstable und SuSE ist, dass Debian trotzdem funktioniert.
<Ganneff> Hrm. wie gross ist ein Standard-web.de-Postfach? <weasel> 4 mal 20 mal 30 Zentimeter
<frobnic> Wann macht eigentlich BK auf? * frobnic s Körper schreit nach Junkfood <mellum> Kannst Du Dich nicht von Kaffee ernähren wie normale Menschen?
<zobel> Irgendwie ist HE ohne Inet schwer vorzustellen... <HE> Ich emuliere das. <HE> Lokale Upload-Queue. Kein Scherz.
<XTaran> Gaah. Mich fragt da grade jemand: "ähm... sarge is jetzt stable?" <weasel> nein <XTaran> Doch. Und auf mein "Ja. Seit ca. 1-2 Wochen." kam nur ein "LOL" <XTaran> *grumpf* <XTaran> Und danach Rumgefrotzel.
<Madkiss> Ey, ich brech ab! <frobnic> .oO( Tsunamiwarnung im Channel #debian.de )
* alphascorpii war eben im Multimedia-Pool hat einen Rechner aus dem Cage gezerrt, aufgeschraubt und ein Compact-Flash rausgefummelt <alphascorpii> Den hatten sie irgendwie ins Gehäuse reingekriegt
<Ganneff> zobel knuddelt mit ner Maschine, und die Leutz sagen, ich wär seltsam <Tolimar> Er knuddelt nur, du würdest sie heiraten
* youam hat nicht mal 30km bis zu seinen Eltern und wäscht trotzdem selbst
<youam> Vorrausgesetzt, ich finde eine Maschine.
* RoRo findet seine Maschine immer, die ist per Schlauchschelle im Keller am
Wasserhahn angebunden, damit sie nicht wegläuft.
<Ganneff> Böses RoRo. Geiselnahme von Maschinen.
<abi_> Salz: Laß uns 'ne Studie starten. <Salz> abi_: Ok, Du holst das Whiteboard, ich 'ne Pizza.
<TCW> Madkiss, das Leben ist hart, ne? <Madkiss> Nein, das Leben ist gcc-3.3 vs. gcc-4.0
* alphascorpii klebt sich ein Schild an: "Handle with care!" <youam> "besorgter handgriff"?
* Tolimar ist ab jetzt Goucho, Myon Harpo, alphascorpii Chico und towo Zeppo.
* Myon verleiht Florian Weimer den "ich lese nur 2 Zeilen weit"-Preis
* Tolimar hat gerade einen tollen Titel für seine Autobiographie gefunden: Geschichten aus 1001em Event...
<formorer> Was macht man gegen Pfeifen im Ohr? <HE> Von der xSeries auf Kopfhöhe weggehen?
* Salz kauft auch nicht immer das billigste <TCW> Bei Toilettenpapier darf man einfach nicht sparen .
Wenn Leute ihre Pakete nicht nach Debian bringen, existiert das Paket nicht für Debian.
* XTaran grübelt grade, wie er diese Diskussion in Argumente konvertieren kann.
Debian ist doch nur ein Pool von Paketen, aus dem sich dann diverse Gruppen ihre Distributionen zusammenstellen.
<Salz> Hier steht der Daystar ja auch erst 10° über dem Horizont. <Salz> Das werden bestimmt noch 56° heute. <Salz> (nicht Celsius, sondern Sonnenstand)
<LGS> .o0(ich bin ein Engel!)
<maxx> *pah* heut soll es 37° kriegen <alphascorpii> Fieber? <maxx> Ja, Petrus hat hohes Fieber
<Getty> Ich bin halt ein Unikat <Joey-> Full Ack <Joey-> (Mehrere Gettys würden wir auch nicht aushalten *eg*)
<Getty> <rotkreuzmach> Joey redet mit LGS....
<Tolimar> Äh... Sag mal... Wenn du das fortune nicht verstehst...
Warum commitest Du es dann?
<panthera> Weil vielleicht jetzt mal endlich wer mir das erklären tut.
* youam ist manchmal ein wenig symmetrie-fanatisch :)
<aleex> Boah, warum kann die doofe HPPA-Mühle nun
net von der HPPA-Netinstall-CD booten? *kotz*
<schoos> .oO { Wie würdest du Dich Erst aufregen, wenn Du
ein leibhaftiges HPUx vor Dir hättest }
<Joey> gaudenz: *tret* <Joey> Joey: *tret* <Joey> Ganneff: *tret*
<Tolimar> Was? Schon Zeit für die Abend-Fortunes? <Tolimar> Wie die Zeit vergeht... <weasel> Tolimar: ? <Tolimar> Vor 10 Minuten kam die "Abend"-Mail von Joey mit neuen fortunes.
<stockholm> War Joey schon aktiv heute? <Rhonda> Hast Du heute schon ein DSA bekommen?
<Madkiss> Der postet auch ständig siebentausend Jahre alte
Logeinträge von mir und denkt, es sei lustig.
<yath> Madkiss: Isses doch auch.
<Madkiss> Es ist so lustig wie Zahnstein.
Ups. Jetzt hab ich so rein aus Gewohnheit die Mails an events@debian.org meinem Spamassassin zum Fruehstück vorgeworfen und ganz übersehen, dass da eine sinnvolle Mail dabei war.
Also es scheint ja kein Geheimnis zu sein, daß Martin Schulze der einzige Aktive im Debian Security Team ist, wenn ich mir mal so die debian-security-announce Archive anschaue... Ich dachte immer das wäre eine Art "Dummy-Adresse", von der aus die Announces verschickt wurden!!
<HE> Joey: Naja, ich habe volles Vertrauen zu dir, daß du weißt was du sagst.
* alphascorpii glaubt, daß von jedem Umzug ein Karton übrigbleibt. Das gehört so.
<Joey> make kommt wohl nicht wirklich mit einem Timestamp in der Zukunft klar. <formorer> Richtig * roh reicht Joey einen Fluxkompensator zum File-Durchpipen
* yath hat übrigens seinen Tux anal penetriert.
<yath> Zwei Löcher rein, damit ich den mit Draht
an der Hutablage festmachen konnte.
Krass, man kann mit Debian out-of-the-box DVDs brennen!
Falsche Liste, falsche Sprache, falsche Informationen und falsche Frage.
<Greek0> Ich hab heute schon MIPS-ASM-Code gelesen, mir reichts für's erste.
<ryo> wieso gibt es keine Pro-Linux-Partei <formorer> weil wir wichtigeres zu tun haben
<alphascorpii> So, genug feminin für heute!
<yath> Halbe Packung Fisherman's Friend is nich so prall fürn Verdauungstrakt. <frobnic> Lutschen, nicht einführen.
<yath> Heißt es denn jetzt "am schlafen gehindert" oder
"am Schlafen gehindert"? ersteres, oder?
<Salz> yath: Wachgehalten.
<weasel> 328801 new: ftp.debian.org very old package, should this be removed? <weasel> hmmm * weasel würd ftp.d.o ja doch noch behalten
* alphascorpii freut sich immer wenn Joey mal vorbeikommt. Endlich mal nicht den Kopf in den Nacken legen müssen beim Reden.
<HA_KE> Getty: Der [Joey] ist gerade weg - sonst würd ich mit ihm und
nicht mir Dir chatten - Du bist mein Ersatz-Joey (und kein guter)
<aba> btw, wo waren denn die Bilder von HE und Anzug? <aba> Ah, formorer.de <HE> Oh nö. <aba> Oh ja <HE> Was hast du grausiges vor?
<sirio> Wie kann man in ner Shell eigentlich rausfinden,
ob man gerade gechrooted ist?
<Ganneff> Nimm einen der Chroot-Exploits und sieh dann
nach ob du noch im selben Dir bist.
<Ganneff> über was wolltest den "talken"? <Joey> Hatte irgendwas mit Freier Software zu tun.
<nitram> cool... ich hab hotplug kapiert <Salz> nitram: ok, dann kannst du ja coldplug ausprobieren
<Joey> Ich hab da quasi nichts gemacht.
<maxx> das einzige, wo ich es schaffe, regelmäßig was zu schreiben, ist IRC... <RvB> Da kennt man wenigstens die Leute, die man belabert.
<formorer> Joey: you wan't new groupies? <Joey> formorer: I'd be the last... <RvB> Joey hat für sowas gar keine Zeit...
<formorer> Joey: zobel sagt, du sollst nicht Faust lesen sondern DSAs releasen
<Tolimar> [..] bisher ist immer etwas Essbares aus dem Ofen gekommen <alphascorpii> Tolimar: selbstständig?!
In debian.de sind komische Leute.
<youam> Ich bin auch auf'm Sprung, frisch geduscht, jetzt
muss ich nur noch den Switch loswerden...
<aba> youam: Wieso duscht du mit dem Switch?
<youam> aba: Weil ich ihn so mag?
<Ganneff> 150? Parken auf der Autobahn?
<alphascorpii> Rhonda: Da kann ich nur empfehlen, nicht am Bhf zu übernachten <Rhonda> Wegen Preis oder wegen Qualität? <alphascorpii> Preis (0E) ist okay, Qualität nicht.
<yath> Wieso hat Knoppix eigentlich kein irssi dabei? <Scorpi> Weil Knoppix alles hat, außer das, was man braucht.
<stockholm> Joey: War ein dummer Witz meinerseits
<Joey> Soso... Du machst hier dumme Witze und ich ersticke fast, weil
ich vergessen habe, beim Trinken die Luftröhre zu schließen...
<Madkiss> Dieses CUPS treibt mich noch in den Wahnsinn <Joey> GO CUPS GO! <Madkiss> Joey: Der Kommentar war inadäquat.
<yath> find . -name \*.jpg | sed -e s,^,`pwd`/, <Joey> Wieso nicht find $(pwd) -name '*.jpg'? <yath> ach. <yath> Joey: deine extrawürste immer :) <Joey> Is ja ok, ich lass Dir ja Dein sed :)
<HE> towo: Ich bin klein Klugscheißer. <HE> Errr. <HE> KEIN
<stockholm> Hat jemand Joey gesehen in letzer Zeit? <towo> Gesehen habe ich ihn noch nie, der ist eher sowas wie ein Mythos.
<weasel> Hmm. kalt. * weasel sollte einen 2. Rechner einschalten.
<HE> Soooo. <HE> Flasche leer, Marc voll.
<towo> HE: The blog^Wmatrix has you, Marc.
Debian hat nur ein Ein-Mann-Security-Team, das sich im Sommer gerne mal einen faulen Lenz macht.
<zobel> Wann zieht ftp-master eigentlich mal wieder auf raff? <aba> zobel: haha
<HE> "HAPPY WINTER"? WTF? * HE .oO(Mail lesen schadet der Gesundheit)
<yath> Was macht ihr da überhaupt? <Rhonda> Zeit tot schlagen, weil die Tasten nicht tot genug sind.
* HE notiert, dass Joey != Joey Hess noch in die nm-templates muss
* ij meidet udev wie das Weihwasser den Teufel und kennt sich folglich damit auch nicht aus
<Rhonda> Dürfen Paketbeschreibungen maßlose Übertreibungen enthalten? <Rhonda> "Boulder Dash was one of the best Games ever made on C64." <Zugschlus> das stimmt völlig <youam> Rhonda: das stimmt doch! <formorer> auf jeden fall
Bei mir fängt nicht jeder Satz mit "Debian" an, schließlich gibt es ja noch "Lisp".
<Scorpi> Getty: Du warst doch mit AJAX am werkeln, oder? <Getty> Scorpi: Jein <Getty> Scorpi: Bin kurz davor wie die Frau beim Orgasmus
<mrvn> Wenn du udev installierst kannst du nicht mehr auf etch upgraden.
<frobnic> Bitte? In Sarge wird udev doch mitgeliefert, wie kann man dann
das upgrade demolieren?
<mrvn> Weil udev genau zum Kernel passen muss und ein Upgrade vom udev
mit falschem Kernel nicht geht. Welcome to Hell.
<Zugschlus> Hmpf.
<Zugschlus> Katzen.
<Zugschlus> Zuerst lassen sie mich den ganzen Vormittag links liegen,
aber sobald ich mich anziehe um arbeiten zu gehen geht
die Schnurrerei und Schleimerei los
<maxx> Da lassen sich gewisse Parallelen zu Frauen erkennen... Ersetze
Vormittag durch Abend und anziehen durch aufstehen...
<maxx> Ich war nett? <maxx> Muß ein Ausrutscher gewesen sein... <Tolimar> Jeder hat mal eine schwache Sekunde...
Debian ist... anders.
<Myon> .oO(Was ist gelb, gekrümmt und abgeschlossen? - Ein Bananachraum.)
<streuner> Das Leben ist kein Kinderspiel, alles was du tust ist ernst...
* yath kann weder mit Frauen noch mit Hunden umgehen. Haben beide weniger als 102 Tasten.
<Joey> HE: Die wollten Output generieren ohne was zu sagen? <HE> Joey: Du bist zu zynisch. <HE> Joey: Verdirb nicht die unschuldige Jugend, bitte.
<Gnomii> Juhuuu!!! es klappt
<Gnomii> Zugschlus: Dickes DANKE ;-)
<Zugschlus> bitte gerne
<fr00d> Super Zugschlus DANKE!!!
<Zugschlus> Glück gehabt, habt mich gerade in Helferlaune erwischt,
und ihr habt gut mitgearbeitet
* weasel hat sich grad Joeys fortunes gesaugt <weasel> Eine Unverschämtheit, wie oft ich da vorkomme
<TCW> Echt deprimierend wenn man nen Hund da hat...
Und keinen wirklichen Dunst von den Viechern hat...
Warum müssen Frauen eigentlich immer nen Hund haben wollen?!
<Salz> Weil Hunde so berechenbar sind
<yath> Das sind Formeln auch, trotzdem wollen Frauen keine Mathematiker
* frobnic erkennt ein exchange schon am geruch.
<erich> 1,2G .thumbnails <--- DA ist mein ganzer Speicherplatz hin *grummel*
<cite> Salz: Komisches Humor-Verständnis habt ihr Debianer. <HE> Humor war nicht DFSG-Free, deswegen verwenden wir eine eigene Version.
<Tolimar> Merke: Man verlässt einen channel nicht mit /quit. <Ganneff> Doch, man verlässt ihn damit. <Tolimar> Ja, so irgendwie schon ;)
<Erdnuss> Wird Mozilla eigentlich noch weiterentwickelt?
Warum sollte man Firefox nehmen statt Mozilla?
<Zomb> Ja, genau darum
<towo> *kotz* Mein Rechner ist wieder schnell <towo> 30s auf fortune warten müssen.. <Salz> Zeit für einen fortunes-Server <XTaran> Kommuniziert man dann mit dem mit dem Fortunes Transport Protocol?
Zur Ablenkung debian-vote zu lesen, und auf Craig Sanders zu stoßen, war dann irgendwie auch eine dumme Idee...
* Scorpi läßt ein 10t-Gewicht auf Salz' großen Zeh fallen <Salz> Toll, jetzt brauch ich links wieder Schuhgröße 420
Wir haben soviele soziale Probleme, dass es einfacher wäre, einen Multimillionär zu finden, der ein Debian-Spinoff ohne soziale Probleme aufbaut...
<Wulf> Joey: wie kritisch ist die Lücke?
<Joey> Nicht kritisch, nur ein remote root exploit, das übliche halt,
nur etwas trickreicher in der Durchführung.
<HE> Edubuntu! Yay, mit überlegener Sicherheitsloch-Technologie!
<Zugschlus> (das war ein Trugschluss) <stockholm> trugschluss reimt sich mit zugschlus <Zugschlus> stockholm: *tret*
* aba überlegt gerade, ob er was falsch gemacht hat. Beifall von der falschen Seite.
<Tolimar> So früh und schon ein DSA? <Joey> Tolimar: Sicherheitslücken schlafen nicht. <formorer> Joey auch nicht
<formorer> Ich verheirate gerade liboil mit theora <h01ger> Ist es eine Zwangs- oder eine Liebesheirat?
<bli> Joey: Ich glaub', ich hab's, aber ich habe Kopfschmerzen.
Selten so einen verschwurbelten Perl-Code gesehen
<Joey> bli: Kennst Du den Begriff "Altlasten"?
<bli> Joey: Jetzt ja.
<C-Otto> ich habe "Yes, do what I say!" getippt und nun ein Problem <C-Otto> erbarmt sich jemand mir zu helfen? <C-Otto> bitte bitte.
<HE> Joey: Deine Aussagen sind nicht zu beachten,
weil du offensichtlich parteiisch bist.
Oha! Über Nacht ist ein Wunder geschehen, mein geliebter Midnight Commander hat UTF-8-Unterstützung in Debian! Jetzt werden wir alle ganz sicher ganz bald sterben...
<Salz> Es gibt keine Aprilscherze * ij schaut aufs Wetter <Salz> Ok, davon abgesehen
* h01ger liest grade -devel Backlog und ist erstaunt, daß da jemand 2KB russischen SPAM ins Englische übersetzt hat. Ich dachte, bei 4 Zeilen hört das auf...
Zeit hat nichts zu bedeuten, wenn ich mir die Karteileichen bei Debian angucke.
* frobnic liest lkml und rasf1 ja überwiegend, um gute englishe Beleidungen zu lernen.
Bei den ganzen Entwürfen ist mir immernoch zu viel LinuxTag und zu wenig Debian.
* weasel hat ja so seine Zweifel, dass mit der besseren
Webseite das TV-Programm besser wird
* frobnic hat gerade gelernt, dass dash auf den Sarge-Kisten installiert ist, omo oder persil aber fehlen.
* Zomb stehen nach d-private lesen schon fast die Haare zu Berge...
Wir brauchen ein starkes Debian.
<domi> Hier kann ned zufällig wer VB? <aba> Selbst wenn ich es könnte, würde ich es nicht gestehen.
* _rene_ geht dann mal OOo auf MIPS testbauen <HER> Und? Camping-Ausrüstung dabei? Klamotten zum Wechseln für eine Woche?
<Zugschlus> Jetzt ist es raus, Joey hat sich klonen lassen. <Zugschlus> Und das Securityteam ist nur eine Illusion.
* frobnic hatte total vergessen, dass Leute, die unter PHP leiden, danach auch noch CSS bekommen.
* Salz verleiht Getty den orangenen Gürtel in 3D
<Myon> Es gibt deutlich zuviele Julien in Debian. <Myon> Die Martins werden wenigstens alle anders genannt.
<codebreaker> Wer hat denn elvis in www-browser eingetragen? Laut
Description ist das doch ein Editor und nicht ein Browser.
<kaner> Haha. Der King ist überall.
<codebreaker> Wer hat denn elvis in www-browser eingetragen? Laut
Description ist das doch ein Editor und nicht ein Browser.
<kaner> Haha. Der King ist überall.
<formorer> tiCo: Gutes Copyright-File
<tiCo> formorer: Also ernsthaft jetzt?
<formorer> tiCo: Ja, man sieht genug schlechte, daß man auch mal ein
sorgfältig zusammengestelltes erwähnen muß.
* Madkiss macht sich jetzt einen alias: nzrr = mutt
<mrvn> Wie lösch ich eine Ramdisk? <yath> RAM ausbauen?
<Joey> Och nö, jetzt flutet der Zugschlus auch noch den Planet <_aba> Joey: Jeder darf mal <Joey> _aba: NEIN NEIN NEIN!
Ich finde Python ekelhaft und Debian hats trotzdem.
* rvb hat immer kurze Hosen an. <rvb> Okay... An meinen kurzen Beinen sind kurze Hosen auch lang, aber...
<rvb> aba: Vielleicht findest Du kurze Hosen nur schlecht, weil man dann
käsig-weiße Männerbeine mit dunklen Haaren sieht. Trügest Du
allerdings öfter kurze Hosen, hättest du gar keine käsig-weißen
sondern knackig-braune Männerbeine, auf denen man dunkle Haare
kaum wahrnimmt.
* nattie fällt in Ohnmacht
Debian-Urlaub, soso. Wo warst du denn? In Gentoolien?
<madduck> formorer: Neues Mailsystem, ca. 200 Benutzer, 180 davon Trottel:
dspam oder SA oder beides?
<mastermind> madduck: shutdown -h now
* Rhonda heult... <Rhonda> Ich weiß nimmer, wo ich in meiner inbox war.. Und Joey ist Schuld! <Rhonda> ... keine webwml failed Mails mehr zur Orientierung da.
* Joey hatte heute eine klitschnasse Jeans und ein pitschnasses Oberteil an.
<_aba> Joey: Was hast du getan?
<Joey> Ich hatte dicke Klamotten drüber tragen müssen und war in der Sonne.
<_aba> Das macht ja keinen Spaß
<Joey> Doch, hat es.
<_aba> (Joey hat halt komische Preferenzen)
-- #Debian.DE
* h01ger wurde von der lachenden Sonne geweckt. <HE> h01ger: Was hast du geraucht, dass du lachende Sonnen siehst?
<weasel> .oO( Hurd, das Duke Nukem Forever der Betriebssysteme )
<towo> Versteh mal einer den Python-Mist in sid... <formorer> Nee, das hab ich aufgegeben.
<HE> Sonnenschein! * madduck findet so Optimisten wie den HE echt blöd gerade. <HE> Also hier scheint die Sonne, da brauche ich keinen Optimismus für.
<janneg> Antike Linux-Distributionen am Ende. <janneg> Ich dachte erst, Debian hätte beschlossen sich aufzulösen.
<_aba> white: Frauen sind nicht zum essen da ... <tokkee> _aba: Aber zum vernaschen ;-) <_aba> pfui
<woglinde> Wenn wir TeX sagen meinen wir eigentlich LaTeX. <woglinde> Außer Joey vielleicht.
Ich fühle mich nur eher schlecht dabei, wenn ein wichtiger Teil der Distribution von Leuten bearbeitet wird, die gegen den Rest des Debian-Projekts kämpfen.
10:13 <wuffel> Nabbnd * reiffert installiert einen Time Warp Corrector an Wuffels Armgelenk
Wenn das Debian-Projekt nicht untergehen will, dann sollte man sich überlegen ob man sich nicht von den Leuten, die offensichtlich schaden, trennen sollte.
<GyrosGeier> Man kann über TFTP Mail verschicken? <GyrosGeier> Wow
<Salz> apt-cache rdepends libburn-1 schaut traurig aus <weasel> und Solaris ist toll
<formorer> Hast Dich verhintet? <aba> Nack. Ich habe richtig gehintet. <aba> "massive hint-attacke" sozusagen...
Entweder Debian reinigt sich oder Debian geht unter.
<Alfie> alphie, rufst Du mal www.debian.org/events/ auf? <alphascorpii> Aber du bist doch Alfie.
<_aba> Ich wollte eigentlich was nützliches tun am Wochenende <nattie> Das ist doch albern
Debian steht hinter Red Hat und Novell in der zweiten Reihe.
Die Hälfte der Bugs ist durch Änderungen von Debian verursacht, der Rest durch Linux Kernel Bugs.
Unglaublich, dass nicht jeder einzele Debian-User erst mal 1200 Zeilen Doku lesen will.
<madduck> Ganneff: erschiessen darfst Du mich ein anderes mal,
upstart in NEW darfst Du aber gleich rejecten.
<fantasio> Was spricht dagegen das Asterisk-Debian-Paket zu nehmen? <Joey> Was spricht dagegen, zu frühstücken?
<madduck> Joey: Dein Blog-Eintrag sollte also lustig sein?? <HE> madduck: Niemals. <HE> Joey meint das ernst, der benutzt ja auch kein X.
<toskala> HARRRR, ich habe PHP besiegt! <cw81> Ist PHP dann jetzt endlich tot?
<Joey> nion: Du bist Default-Stand-Deko "Geek an Laptop"
<yath> TCW: ich hab bei meinem letzten 45 bezahlt :( <TCW> yath, 45 für ne Popel-Männerfrisur? <yath> 15EUR waschen/schneiden/fönen, 15EUR HU abgelaufen, 15EUR AU abgelaufen.
Debian releast nicht zu langsam, die Entwicklung verläuft einfach zu schnell.
<frobnic> Hat hier zufällig jemand eine OS/2-Capi für 'ne alte Teles-Karte? <frobnic> Ist ja echt leichter, Angela Merkel nude zu finden, als sowas.
<Myon> Was ist dieses xgl eigentlich? <HE> Natives GL im X-Server, für mehr *bling*
<zobel> jjFux: Was ist mit tinyproxy? <jjFux> Nichts besonderes. Installieren, testen, von Bugs erschlagen werden.
Debian kann ein Huhn installieren, das ist wirklich kein Intelligenzbeweis.
<weasel> hier ist nicht jag den link <weasel> hier ist irc.
<mrvn> Eigentlich müßte Geschäftskunde doch billiger sein.
Die haben viel weniger Traffic.
<aba> Aber mehr Geld.
<mrvn> ij hat ein besonderes Verhältnis zum OOM, das keiner erklären kann.
* zobel geht mal formi verhauen, mit ner suse-cd.... <formorer> ey! <Joey> zobel: Wo hast Du eine suse-cd her???
* frobnic liest zum Ausgleich debian-vote. <frobnic> Das relativiert den Irrsinn wenigstens etwas.
<mrvn> C hätte echt mal char,short,int,long,long long fest auf
int8,16,32,64,128 festlegen sollen.
<frobnic> Da hätten die Jungs mit 'ner PDP-11 aber gekotzt...
Debian ist ein Egotrip für Verhaltensgestörte!
<Zomb> Wann laufen double-Werte über? <Salz> Gar nicht, die sind ungenau genug, daß irgendwann d+1 == d gilt
<frobnic> formorer: POP3 kann man auch im Suff per telnet bedienen... <formorer> frobnic: Du liest deine Mail per telnet? :) <frobnic> formorer: Nur im Suff :)
* h01ger wowt. Joey hat das letzte Wort in einem Thread mit svenl
<mellum> frobnic: Was hat ocaml mit Python zu tun? <frobnic> mellum: Ist auch 'ne Posersprache
<Longkong> Bei Pestfox muss man sich schon ein wenig anstrengen,
um open relay zu sein
<frobnic> Warum? Hat noch keiner ein passendes HOWTO geschrieben?
Immer mehr Leute erkennen, daß sich bei Debian inhaltlich nichts tut und daß das Original währenddessen ständig verbessert wird.
* XTaran kennt Leute, die der Meinung sind, dass Debian momentan allerdings allgemein mit dem "wir müssen schneller und häufiger releasen" seine Stammkundschaft vergrault.
<Zomb> Aah, whois ist doch was praktisches <Zomb> you can... you can hide... but you never escape DEnic *sing*
<frobnic> jstest zeigt mir, dass 'js0' der hdaps-sensor von meinem Laptop ist.
<Defiant__> Besonders toll, wenn man mplayer benutzt und der komische Sachen
macht wegen dem hdaps
<frobnic> Du meinst, das wäre die Ursache dafür, dass meine Videos im
Zug ruckeln, auf dem Schreibtisch aber nicht?
* meebey vermutet langsam, Windows ist weiblich, das würde so einiges erklären
<weasel> formorer: neues stable tor <formorer> ahhh ihr macht mich alle wahnsinnig <weasel> .oO( es klappt! ) <formorer> *patsch*
<SdK> rm statt rar ist blöd...
<Zomb> .oO( Aus Schilling wird Euro. Aus cdrtools wird cdrkit. )
<tododoc> Wie kann ich mir anzeigen lassen, ob ein Gerät
über USB 2.0 oder USB 1.1 angesteuert wird?
<streuner> Übertrage paar Daten, wenn es lahm ist, ist es 1.1
<youam> miracee: Jetzt bin ich so halb hier <miracee> youam: *g* halb ist gut
Das Problem ist, daß ich es für unwahrscheinlich halte, daß man sich bei Debian dazu durchringt einen Fehler begangen zu haben.
<Salz> 10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1... frohen 32. Dezember!
Demokratie kann in Debian nicht funktionieren.
<frobnic> Was geht denn nur in diesen Wesen vor, wenn sie eine Mail verschicken? <formorer> frobnic: Nichts und da liegt's Problem.
Nachdem bei dem ursprünglich vorgeschlagenen Namen "Jakobs Krönung" markenrechtliche Bedenken laut geworden sind, hat man sich bei Debian nun darauf verständigt, daß man Java in "IceTea" umbenennen will.
Das Problem an den Entscheidungen in Debian ist, dass eigentlich niemand einen persönlichen Vorteil erreichen kann, also sind demokratische Entscheidungen vor allem Egowettbewerbe - wessen Vorschlag gewinnt, fühlt sich gut, hat also einen Vorteil. Also geht komplett auf einen Pissing Contest zurück.
Bei Debian scheint man in letzer Zeit alles zu forken, bei dem die Autoren erkannt haben, was die wirklichen Ziele von Debian sind...
Get:42 http://debian.netcologne.de sid/main libjasper-1.701-1 1.701.0-2 [135kB] <zobel> /me las da gerade libjaspert........ :) <zobel> nach der libjoey jetzt die libjaspert.... :)
<Thomas_-> geht das alte t-online btx auch über DSL?
<can-filip> BTX wurde doch abgeschaltet?
<can-filip> Thomas_-: Du hast etwa 6 Jahre geschlafen:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/11881
<Hoaxter> hm das neue Iceweasel Icon ist doof <Hoaxter> ich such die ganze Zeit was blaues <Hoaxter> und irgendwer hat das grün gemacht
<Phaidros> Salz: oh Gott, das ist ja grauenhaft <Salz> Phaidros: Willkommen im Heise-Forum
<Getty> Getty ist zurück, d.h. wieder Ende der Japsenzeit
<Tolimar> . o O ( "END OF DEBIAN PREDICTED: Second white shows up" )
<andreasj> Also diese neuen Spam-Mails muten an wie Blog-Posts von Clint Adams <andreasj> Irgendwie ist es eine Geschichte, aber ich versteh sie nicht.
<Ganneff> Die Mosquitos in Oaxaca hatten ja auch keinen Respekt. <weasel> Ach die stechen dich nicht weil du DAM bist?
<towo> *lach* In #wikipedia haben wir gerade herausgefunden,
warum es keine schlauen Amerikaner gibt.
<towo> Alle schlauen Amerikaner arbeiten bei der NSA,
und die dürfen nicht mit Ausländern sprechen.
Hmm. Jetzt hab ich ein Ubuntu in einem Vmware-Player unter Ubuntu in einem Xnest auf einem Debian.
<aba> hey, hier darf man ja über Fußball reden ...
-!- Ganneff changed the topic of #debian-devel.de to: Dies ist wirklich
*kein* Supportchannel | kaner: die spinnen, die Germanen |
Schnauze mit Fussball
<Ganneff> aba: nö :)
<Ganneff> first bopm, now weasel. two bots in action.
<HE> towo: Ich bin klein Klugscheißer.
<alphascorpii> Können bitte alle doofen Menschen ein eigenes Land
bekommen, und da hin gehen? BITTE?
<weasel> alphascorpii: Gibt doch schon 2
<weasel> alphascorpii: Frankreich und USA.
<alphascorpii> Uhm, willst Du das dann eigentlich auf de oder en? <Joey> Bitte auf Englisch. <Joey> Für die deutsche Fassung haben wir die Experten.
Was glaubst du hab ich gemacht, bevor ich Debian gefunden habe? Ich war SuSE-Administrator. Jetzt, nach Jahren, kann ich drüber reden...
<Scorpi> anguis: Willste Windbeutel backen?
<anguis> Die brauch ich nicht zu backen, dazu muss ich
nur kurz 'ne Plastiktüte vor die Tür halten
<Ganneff> Der wollte *mich* heben. <Ganneff> Das ist nen wortwörtlicher *schwerer* Fehler.
Hmm, irgendwie passiert in Debian gerade auch nicht viel, gerade mal 5.5MB Updates in sid... Ist gerade Weihnachten?
<Salz> So. Ich kann meine GPG-Passphrase nicht mehr tippen... <frobnic> Finger abgebrochen? <Salz> Beim 4. Versuch hats geklappt... <frobnic> Dann kannst du beruhigt sein: Alle benutzten Finger sind noch dran.
<frobnic> Humpta. zwei Krankenwagen vor der Tür... <Phaidros> frobnic: Wieso das? <frobnic> Phaidros: Zum Glück weiss ich das nicht.
"Subject: why your woody is so small? ;-)" Gna, und ich schau in die Mail, weil ich an Debian gedacht habe...
<SdK> Kann Emacs eigentlich Videoschnitt?
<yath> Haha <yath> Grade DSF. Man soll Automarken mit o nennen. <yath> Ruft einer an. "Renault?"
<can-filip> Ist es denn sinnvoll, ein Porno zu vektorisieren? <Getty> can-filip: Hängt von den Rundungen ab
* thana würde auch mit Java ins Bett steigen wenn's ginge
* HE .oO(Auto ist deutlich kälter als Taucherbrille?)
<Myon> So manchmal bräuchte ich ein alias 'ls -n'='ln -s'
<reeve> Achso -.- danke Myon
<weasel> reeve: Wir verwenden hier i.A. ASCII und Varianten, nicht
Morse-Code.
<maxx> codebreaker: PASSWORD '"$foopass"'" <mjk> maxx: Fauxpas schreibt man aber anders. <maxx> wo hab ich das geschrieben? [ Minuten später ] * maxx haut mal mjk
<man-di> HE: aber wer nix macht, macht auch keine Fehler <HE> man-di: Right, deswegen bin *ich* ja auch faul.
<man-di> moin <Mechtilde> apt-get update <man-di> Mechtilde: command not found
<man-di> HE: Wie kann ich mein Paßwort für die newmaint db
ändern ohne das aktuelle zu wissen?
<HE> man-di: "Nicht"
<HE> Senilität ist unsupported.
<palic> Wonach suche ich, wenn ich ergründen möchte, warum ein
Linuxsystem nach 400+ Tage uptime immer noch 100% des
Speichers festhält, obwohl alle Services runtergefahren sind?
<Getty> palic: Nach dem Reset-Knopf?
<Ganneff> Maintainer: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg-debian.org@fifthhorseman.net> <Ganneff> Description: font that imitates Daniel Kahn Gillmor's handwriting <Ganneff> erm. ja. klar.
* alphascorpii kuckt "Ich bin Wagner" ich weiß nicht ob ich mich ärgern oder freuen soll * Joey spielt Steuererklärung und würde unabhängig vom Ausgang der Frage gerne mit alphascorpii tauschen
<Phaidros> Ansonsten ist XML im Prinzip schon geil <frobnic> So geil wie ein Autounfall
* Tolimar wirft einen Stein nach Rhonda <weasel> Tolimar: werfen reicht nicht <weasel> treffen muss man auch
<Rince> Kann mir jemand sagen wo Opera sein Flash gerne hätte? <Salz> Ich kann nur sagen, wo ich Flash gerne hätte...
<Myon> IRC lenkt schon ziemlich vom Arbeiten ab, wenn er sichtbar ist <Myon> Also seid mal bitte alle ruhig :-P <mrdata> Ich find ja eher das Gegenteil... <mrdata> Arbeit lenkt zu sehr vom IRC ab.
<Getty> Joey: Proll. Andere sind froh, wenn sie einen Fehler finden, <Getty> Du findest natürlich direkt alle.
* maxx mag Seagate wegen der 5 Jahre Garantie - Da hat man noch Hoffnung, daß die 3 Jahre halbwegs tun * weasel lacht maxx aus
<alphascorpii> armes HE, wer den Schnupfen hat ... <HE> ... hat auch die Kopfschmerzen.
<stockholm> Mate is übel <maxx> Millionen Südamerikaner teilen diese Meinung nicht... <stockholm> Die gehen mir auch nur bis zur Brust <stockholm> Wachstumsstörungen sprechen eine deutliche Sprache
<bozi> einmal gelaufene Sendungen sollten per P2P veröffentlicht werden <bozi> zwecks redundenter Kulturarchivierung
<pfote> .o0(Also vor der britischen Marine brauchen wir keine Angst mehr
zu haben, die führen jetzt "Windows for Warships" ein)
<the-me> Windows und U-Boote passt doch perfekt
<the-me> Windows selbst ist wie ein U-Boot
<the-me> Machste ein Fenster auf, hast'n Problem
<pfote> Da bekommt der BSOD eine ganz neue Bedeutung
* tiCo stellt Ganneff ein Glas Milch und ne Schale mit Keksen hin <HE> Bestechung zählt nicht.
<Cord> Kann mir dann jemand erklären wozu wir rt.debian.org brauchen? <HE> Das löst alle unsere Probleme mit DSA, keyring-maint und buildd admins
Debian ist so sexy wie eine Kuhmagd oder eine Walküre.
Ich glaub, ich muss auf Gentoo oder Slackware umsteigen. Für Debian braucht man keine Intelligenz mehr.
<GyrosGeier> crosstool kann zwar viel, ist aber leider sehr fragil <GyrosGeier> das reimt sich <GyrosGeier> und was sich reimt, ist wahr
* yath will ein ctags für /proc- oder /sys-nodes, verdammich.
<Mrfai> Ich schau mal, ob wir da auch reinwollen.
Wenn ja sind das 2 Betten für FAI.
* HE .oO(Eins für Thomas, eins für die Hardware?)
* alphascorpii schreibt ja auch Code und keine Belletristik
Windows breitet sich nicht aus, hast du Debian im Haus. Debian ist großer Mist, wennstes nicht zum Booten krist.
<Cord> Kann mir dann jemand erklären, wozu wir rt.debian.org brauchen? <HE> Das löst alle unsere Probleme mit DSA, keyring-maint und Buildd-Admins <Cord> hmmm. <waldi> buildd hat damit nix zu tun <HE> waldi: Ist doch egal, es löst die Probleme trotzdem.
<HE> Ach, es ist mal wieder Mailman-Day... <frobnic> Eine der besten Erfindungen seit Herpes.
<BC-bd> Hach, man muss Kunden schon mögen.
Ich hoffe mal er mag unseren Anwalt auch.
<streuner> Rhonda: Wie meinst du das? <Rhonda> Wie mein ich was? <streuner> Beantworte nicht 'ne Frage mit ner Gegenfrage.
<Myon> Hmm, wmii hat seltsame Vorstellungen wo es den Fokus hin tun soll.
<Myon> Wenn ich in Festern 3 ^C drücke um Festern 2 zu schließen,
will ich bestimmt nicht zu Fenster 1 springen.
<mrvn> Wißt ihr was an 4 Jahreszeiten so toll ist? 4 Pizzen in einer.
<marv_> Mohoin <youam> marv_: Du weißt, was man hier mit gut gelaunten Menschen macht? <marv_> youam: Ja, Kekse und Kaffee spendieren :) <formorer> arsencookies
<Hoaxter> aptitude dist-upgrade schlägt u.a. die Entfernung von aptitude vor. <HE> [X] Volltreffer
<Scorpi> Wieso geht Rebooten eigentlich konsequent schief,
wenn man es remote macht?
<mrvn> Die Wahrscheinlichkeit ist proportional zur Entfernung.
<Yuscha> Wer ist hier alles von ner Uni? * GyrosGeier ist von 'ner Uni geflogen, zählt das? <formorer> Ich hab mal eine von innen gesehen, zählt das?
Mein Gott, selbst ein Huhn kann Debian installieren, wenn du genug Körner auf die Enter-Taste legst.
<codebreaker> Gibt es ein Metapaket, das so 99% aller
Perlmodule in Debian beinhaltet?
<Myon> Nein, wir erlauben keine Depends:-Zeilen über 1MB
* Rhonda würde in Jubelschrei ausbrechen, wenn Debian mit der Qualität von WoW übersetzt wäre.
<carstenh> mjk: das versuche ich Dir die ganze Zeit zu sagen :) <mjk> carstenh: Auf dem Schlauch steht's sich bequem. |-)
<Rhonda> Also die Spang schaut noch wie ein halbes Kind aus,
jetzt wo ich ihr gegenübersitz ...
<Ganneff> Rhonda: Interface?
<Rhonda> Ihr public Interface, ja.
<alphascorpii> Ja, ich könnte "trust the weasel"-Aufkleber verteilen <weasel> alphascorpii: das wär ja so, als verteile man "Atmet Luft"-Aufkleber.
<waldi> hat jemand was wirksames gegen rpm? <yath> p wegnehmen
<tiCo> Ich hab in meiner Kindheit zu viel overkill und asciijump gespielt :( <madduck> Deine Kindheit ist doch noch gar nicht vorbei! :)
* HE .oO(Und Linus hätte doch amd64 statt x86_64 im Kernel verwenden sollen)
<waldi> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room <waldi> nicht schon wieder... <mrvn> gut das die DYNAMISCH ist <waldi> joa
<xTs> .oO( kaum ist man mal ein paar Stunden am Telefonieren
gibts Schwanzvergleiche in #debian.de... )
<averell[tm]> Nicht alles, was in cm gemessen wird, hat mit Genitalien zu tun.
<man-di> HE: bei uns geht das einfacher, man läßt alle Eclipse starten. <HE> man-di: Und dann warten sie 3 Tage, bis das Ding gebootet ist? <man-di> HE: Die meisten geben vorher auf :-)
<towo> Ich sehe echt nicht, wie 2.0.5-2 < 2.0.5-1.1 sein soll. <caba> Voodoo
<frobnic> Aha. Der GNOME-taschenrechner hat bei Excel abgeguckt:
160000/12=138E3,8E38E38E4
<frobnic> Argh. Der ist hex.
[rafkill] <WorkingGeier> wie ist das im Vergleich zu oolite? <WorkingGeier> mehr Ballern, weniger Traden? <Ganneff> trade? <Ganneff> ha! <Ganneff> überflüssig <Ganneff> ballern, Schiff erweitern, weiterballern
<Phaidros> frobnic: Ich bin eine Südstaaten (Südhessen) Schönheit
<frobnic> Warum nimmst Du nicht <table>, wenn Du eine Tabelle
layouten willst? Mußt Du irgendwem was beweisen?
<Phaidros> frobnic: Er ist Mitglied der Terrorgruppe "radikales CSS"
<weasel> blogs sind blöd <Joey> blogs ist ein Unwort (und Unwort auch btw.)
<waldi> So, was macht man mit DDs die den SC ignorieren? <stockholm> Was macht man mit DDs die die constitution ignorieren? <maxx> Kommt drauf an <maxx> Wenn es CABAL ist preisen, ansonsten prügeln.
"Debian" und "fix" in einem Satz halte ich schon für reichlich gewagt.
Wir sind hier in #Debian.DE. Hier haben Bits drei mögliche Zustände: "Wahr", "Falsch", "Weiß auch nicht".
* kaFux befürchtet ja, daß etliche hier im Channel erstmal nachschauen müßten, was SS20 ist (oder war).
<mjk> Äääh ... ich glaube, ich bin möglicherweise ein paar Wochen auf
einem toten Pferd geritten. Ich piense wochenlang herum, wie
langsam doch die neue SATA-Platte sei, "Ich will wieder SCSI !!!11"
etc., und was entdecke ich eben? Ein seit der Installation bestehendes
/dev/vg00/lvsnap. ARGH!
* mjk steigt jetzt mal ab.
<mjk> Ein aktiviertes lvsnap, wohlgemerkt.
#Debian.DE
<igraltist> Geht das, ein DOS 6.2 mit Linux über ein die
serielle Schnittstelle zu verbinden?
<formorer> ja, Linux verwendet die selben Kabel
<GyrosGeier> Man sollte OOo in Eclipse integrieren
<HE> GyrosGeier: Man sollte sich auch häufiger rostige Nägel
in die Ohren stecken, ja.
<bzed> Bevor ich PHP-Fetischst werd', erschieß ich mich lieber.
Oder lern' auf Lochkarten zu coden.
<Myon> Du kannst ja auf die Lochkarten schießen.
<SGirL> Joey: Wer echt guten Code produziert, braucht kein Backup,
das machen dann andere Leute fuer einen?
<Joey> SGirL: Nein.
<Salz> SGirL: genau
<SGirL> Könnt ihr euch bitte entscheiden?
<Phaidros> Salz: Sei ein liebes Salz, sonst fluoridier ich Dich
<weasel> rafkill ist ein 2D-Shooter <Ganneff> Außer Ballern keine Handlung. Perfektes Spiel.
* XTaran erinnert sich noch gut dran, als er das erste Mal wesnoth gespielt hat. Er wollte Tolimar einfach nicht glauben, daß das Zeugs süchtig macht. Am Abend um 20 Uhr angefangen, morgens um 8 Uhr aufgehört, um 10 Uhr im Büro gewesen... ;-)
Was Debian bräuchte, wäre ein funktionierendes Kernel-, VoIP- und dpkg-Team. Das wären mal Features.
#debian.de tut etwas für die Erziehung unserer Mitbürger. Find ich gut.
* KruemelGeier erinnert sich noch an die Zeiten, als in der README stand "fahr' nach Oldenburg und benutze scp von einem existierenden buildd"
<xTs> Oh Oh, ich hör auf mich zu beschweren... gcc-avr ist endlich installierbar <WorkingGeier> Dann können wir lenny ja jetzt releasen * xTs kehrt den Sarkasmus weg
* WorkingGeier is now known as GYROSGEIER <GYROSGEIER> WALDI, HEUTE IST INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY * mode/#debian.de [+o waldi] by ChanServ <waldi> jaja * mode/#debian.de [+v GYROSGEIER] by waldi
* HE wundert sich langsam nicht mehr, warum er ständig in den fortunes landet.
Das, was mich bei Debian krank gemacht hat, habe ich vor 1 Jahr abgegeben. Das macht jetzt zobel krank.
Also manchmal gehen mir diese Security-Hanseln in Debian auf den Geist. Da hab ich gestern erst alle Maschinen aktualisiert und heut haben die schon wieder nen DSA released. Was fällt denen ein, nicht einen Tag Ruhe hat Mensch.
<tokkee> Joey: Du lebst in der Vergangenheit! ;-P <tokkee> Joey: Vergiß es - ich kann nicht lesen ;-)
Na ich hoff mal ned daß Debian aufgibt weil Lidl vor die Hunde geht.
<Joey> towo: Muß ich mir eigentlich Gedanken machen, daß ich auf
linux-club.de 'nen towo als moderator finde?
<towo> ICH bin das nicht.
<der_ToWo> Nein, das bin ich.
<msa> Hallo, eine Frage: Gibs eigentlich nen eig. postfix irc chan? -!- msa [~ms@80.122.93.202] has quit [] <Rhonda> msa: Ja, aber das hörst du leider nicht mehr.
<yath> Ich geh mal Familienmitglied emulieren. Guten Rutsch und bis gleich. <Salz> Hast Du keine VM dafür?
<mrvn> I'm bored. Amuse me. * TCW singt mrvn mal ein Schlaflied vor *träller*
<mrvn> Schon wieder Mittag. Wer dreht eigentlich immer an der Uhr? <Salz> mrvn: Die bösen Zahnräder hinter dem Ziffernblatt.
<ultimator> Kann man sich selber eigentlich mit dem System intregieren? <Salz> ja, aber die Hardware dazu wird vom FBI unter Verschluß gehalten. <ultimator> Wäre aber echt gefährlich. <ultimator> Aber fehlerfrei wäre es das wie im Film die Matrix. <Salz> Wäre die Matrix fehlerfrei, wäre man gar nicht erst herausgekommen.
* frobnic trinkt gerade Waldmeisterbrause. Das dokumentiert das Elend vollständig.
<JesusChristus> Why is my connection restricted? <mrvn> Weil Gott das so will.
<Joey> Salz: Siehe den RC-Bug von Joey und mir :(
<XTaran> Komisch, ich hab hier ein Programm, das nur tut wenn ich es im strace
laufen lasse. Ohne poppt kurz ein Fenster auf und ist sofort wieder
weg. Das Programm selbst beendet sich aber nicht. Heisenbug?
<XTaran> Wie debuggt man sowas?
<mastermind> XTaran: Mit lautem fluchen.
<Tolimar> Debian ist langweilig; letzte Woche neuen Monitor bekommen. Angeschlossen, funktioniert alles. Gerade eben neue Graphikkarte bekommen. Eingebaut, funktioniert. <Tolimar> Wenn das so weitergeht, wechsel ich noch auf Hurd oder so...
<aptituz> Btw. um dahinter zu steigen, welche Maintainerskripte wann mit welchen Parametern aufgerufen werden, gibt es nen netten Artikel im Debian Women Wiki <thana> Wieso denn nur bei denen? <man-di> Wenn Frauen Pakete installieren, werden andere Maintainerscripte aufgerufen als bei Männern
<yath> formorer: Geh für mich arbeiten, das macht wach <yath> .o(dann kann ich noch 'ne Runde pennen)
<Scorpi> gphoto2 hat aber nichts mit usb-storage zu tun, oder? <anguis> Ich hab grad nicht viel weiter gelesen als bis gphoto2
Faszinierend, was es in Debian so alles gibt: Pakete, bei denen in stable neuere Versionen sind, als in unstable.
Ich freue mich schon auf ein Parlament, in dem es zugeht wie auf den deutschen Debian-Listen.
<Salz> Wie wär's denn, wenn man seine Pakete statt hochzulanden auf planet
verlinkt und ftp-master holt die dann von da ab?
<formorer> Klingt super
<TCW> inspecto, kleiner geekiger Insider-Tipp... statt +/- schreib s/emu/emo/
Das kommt gut an und man denkt Du kannst Perl
<tokkee> #ifdef MUST_DISABLE_SIGFPE <tokkee> signal(SIGFPE,SIG_IGN); <tokkee> #endif <tokkee> WTF? <tokkee> RRDtool wird immer gruseliger ... <tokkee> "Nur Chuck Norris und RRDtool können durch 0 teilen."
<carstenh> Joey: Naja, einerseits bringt Flash ohne X nicht viel und
andererseits kann man Leute, die im dritten Jahrtausend noch
ohne X auskommen, nicht unbedingt als Standard-User bezeichnen.
<Joey> carstenh: *schmoll*
<formorer> Apache hat ne wunderbare Doku, man muss sie nur lesen
<Madkiss> Memo an mich: öfter putzen <MFZ> Madkiss: Untermieter gefunden?
<white> Das ist ja mal geil, ich hab ein schnarchendes
Opossum im Baum neben meinem Fenster
<formorer> Jedes Release ein Security Update <formorer> Die Wordpress Jungs bleiben sich treu
<qoreqyas> Könnt ihr ungefähr schätzen, wann Debian 5 kommt? <formorer> Wenns soweit ist <formorer> (das ist sogar ne sehr genaue Schätzung)
<jever> IRC --> Weisheitensammlung :-)
<Myon> ich bin immer noch begeistert, wie gut Perl-Programme noch
laufen, nachdem man sie durch m4 geschickt hat, und das wahllos
Keywords gefressen hat
<HE> Ich bin immer noch begeistert, wie gut Javascript-Programme noch
laufen, nachdem man sie durch irgendeinen Browser geschickt hat.
<Stummi> Hat jemand eine Idee welche Art von Encoding-Verwechslung
das sein kann? ³ statt ü, ÷ statt ö, õ statt ä
<youam> Stummi: Du meinst, drei mal invertiertes fragezeichen statt
invertiertem fragezeichen?